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The Great God and Saviour of us Jesus Christ

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37818

37818

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SavedByGrace said:
Those, like the King James Version, refer these words to Two Persons:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God, and our Sauiour Iesus Christ” (1611)
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The simple truth is, not every reader of Titus 2:13 agree that this KJV translation makes "our Savior Jesus Christ" not to be "the great God" who is the one glorious Person to be appearing.
 
M

Martin Marprelate

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May I recommend an excellent book: The Trinity by Edward Bickersteth (Kregel, ISBN 0-8254-2226-4).
It was a required reading at the little part-time seminary where I studied, and it has a radically different approach from any other book on the subject that I have read. There are literally dozens of parallel texts from Old and New Testaments which show that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are Jehovah.

Just a very brief sampling. Compare
1 Kings 8:39 with Revelation 2:23,
Jeremiah 23:24 with Ephesians 4:10,
Malachi 3:6 with Hebrews 13:8,
Psalm 119:11 with Colossians 3:16,
Benesis 5:3 with 1 Peter 3:20,
Isaiah 53:10 with Numbers 14:11.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
I am not speaking towards using that rule outside of ther Bible....
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This is what Thomas Middleton said in his excellent work on the Greek article, about Sharp's 4th example in his "rules" on 2 Thess. 1:12, "“κατὰ τὴν χάριν τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ”

“This is another of the texts on which Mr. Granville Sharp would rest the doctrine of the Divinity of Jesus Christ, by rendering " of our God and Lord." To the validity, however, of this and of one or two others of his proofs, there are objections, which I ought not to suppress…On the whole, then, I am disposed to think, that the present text affords no certain evidence in favour of Mr. Sharp” (Thomas Middleton, The Doctrine of the Greek Article: Applied to the Criticism and Illustration of the New Testament, pp.379, 382)
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
May I recommend an excellent book: The Trinity by Edward Bickersteth (Kregel, ISBN 0-8254-2226-4).
It was a required reading at the little part-time seminary where I studied, and it has a radically different approach from any other book on the subject that I have read. There are literally dozens of parallel texts from Old and New Testaments which show that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are Jehovah.

Just a very brief sampling. Compare
1 Kings 8:39 with Revelation 2:23,
Jeremiah 23:24 with Ephesians 4:10,
Malachi 3:6 with Hebrews 13:8,
Psalm 119:11 with Colossians 3:16,
Benesis 5:3 with 1 Peter 3:20,
Isaiah 53:10 with Numbers 14:11.
Click to expand...

thanks for this, I have this great book and recommend it to everyone who is interested in the study of the Holy Trinity.
 
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Yeshua1

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SavedByGrace said:
This is what Thomas Middleton said in his excellent work on the Greek article, about Sharp's 4th example in his "rules" on 2 Thess. 1:12, "“κατὰ τὴν χάριν τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ”

“This is another of the texts on which Mr. Granville Sharp would rest the doctrine of the Divinity of Jesus Christ, by rendering " of our God and Lord." To the validity, however, of this and of one or two others of his proofs, there are objections, which I ought not to suppress…On the whole, then, I am disposed to think, that the present text affords no certain evidence in favour of Mr. Sharp” (Thomas Middleton, The Doctrine of the Greek Article: Applied to the Criticism and Illustration of the New Testament, pp.379, 382)
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Are you saying that his rule does not fit Titus and 1 peter then?
 
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Martin Marprelate

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MB said:
Where do you believe these Variants come from?Is it men who are attempting to change the word to their particular preference?, Or is it Satanic influence, Maybe just men who wish to be Christian but they can't leave there sinful lives behind .So they bring there sin in to there Salvation so they can have both.
MB
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In the case of the older translations, I think it is just that Granville Sharp had not yet done his stuff. The JWs, of course have doctored the bible to suit their faulty theology.
 
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M

MB

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
I have seen myself that Sharp is wrong. Even Robertson and Middleton query Sharp on another passage!
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I could accept you an student in Bible studies but never as a master which you seem to think of your self.
The Christian doctrine is all about being inspired to seek God with all your heart.When you become driven for reasons other than self prestige
MB
 
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Van

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"Consequently, in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 we are compelled to recognize that, on a grammatical level, a heavy burden of proof rests with the one who wishes to deny that “God and Savior” refers to one person, Jesus Christ." (Dr. Dan Wallace)
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Van said:
"Consequently, in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 we are compelled to recognize that, on a grammatical level, a heavy burden of proof rests with the one who wishes to deny that “God and Savior” refers to one person, Jesus Christ." (Dr. Dan Wallace)
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That is Wallace :eek:
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Van said:
"Consequently, in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 we are compelled to recognize that, on a grammatical level, a heavy burden of proof rests with the one who wishes to deny that “God and Savior” refers to one person, Jesus Christ." (Dr. Dan Wallace)
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Look at #17
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

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SavedByGrace said:
Those, like the King James Version, refer these words to Two Persons:
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How dishonest!

Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

As a Lebanese man in the Middle East reading that I rejoiced to see Christ here identified as the great God and have used that verse in the KJB to prove the deity of Christ in witnessing.
Ever heard of a hendiadys?
 
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