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Featured Defending Biblical Dispensational Teaching. What Are Your Questions

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JD731, Aug 1, 2021.

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  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t matter. The work of Jesus on the cross that brought both Jew and Gentile together into one “new man” cannot be undone.

    In fact, the passage in Ephesians states that God will use this union of Jew and Gentile to demonstrate His grace in Christ Jesus in the “ages to come”.

    It cannot be undone

    peace to you
     
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    @JD731 , are all non-Jews prior to AD 40 damned eternally?
     
  3. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Of course. Abraham was not under the law of Moses. That was about 500 years later.
    I said Paul said that under the law it wasn't of faith. Under the law, brother. Abraham was not under the law. Surely you know that.

    I believe in salvation by faith alone, during the church age.
    It wasn't faith alone under the law, as Paul says.
    Don't misrepresent me please. Otherwise you're deceitful.
    Also, the "there you have it" sensationalism is ridiculous as I've stated my position many times in the forum.
     
  4. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Again, I'll take it.
     
  5. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians is the most important epistle in the scriptures to explain the history of the inclusion of the gentiles into the spiritual blessings of Israel. This history began in Acts 10 when God first began saving gentiles when he first sent Peter to open up the door of faith to them.

    The theme of this letter is “ the mystery of Christ.” The capsule statement that defines the mystery of Christ is Eph 3:6. It says this.

    Ephesians 3:1-7
    1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
    7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

    In order to be a partaker one must not be the initial participant.he would be added later. That is exactly how Ephesians is laid out. Everything said in the first 12 verses of chapter one pertains to the Jewish believers in Christ and the distinction between Jews and gentiles in the one body that is being formed in this age is clearly the point of this letter. Notice the Jews first and then later the inclusion of the gentiles in these passages I will quote.

    Ephesians 1:11-12
    11 In whom also we (the context demands this be Jews and so does the history’s) have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

    Consider who first trusted in Christ, not because I say it but because scripture says it.

    Acts 3:25-26
    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    I urge you to read the full sermon of Peter for the context.

    Consider this passage.

    Romans 8:19-23
    19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
    20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
    21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
    22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
    23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    You may not be able to see that this passage is the same context because of your presuppositions but the creature is a reference to the non Jew or non Israel believer and it clearly identifies the “they” as being a subset that is different than those who received the first fruits of the Spirit. The word also puts the creation as one who is added.

    One more:

    Romans 15:24-27
    24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
    25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
    26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
    27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

    That passage speaks for itself and now a look at verse thirteen of Ephesians one.

    Ephesians 1:13-14
    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    The “ye” is clearly identified all through this letter as being gentile Christians, who were added to an already existing body consisting of Jewish believers in Christ. Miss this and you miss the intent of the revelation of this mystery. Look here.


    Ephesians 2:11-13
    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    We have already seen that “time past” was explained in Ga 4:4 as being the former time when Israel was under the operative principle of divine dealing of the Mosaic law.

    These are wonderful truths and I can meditate for hours on the glories of our Lord Jesus and how good he is for including us. Thank you Holy Father God for the dispensational framework of your glorious word.
     
    #125 JD731, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  6. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not.

    Suppose you were born into the world with a learning impairment and the only things you could learn from your parents is the fact that fire is hot and it will burn you if you get too close to it and hurting others with fire is wrong You cannot learn anything else and often times you kick the dog and hurt it but you do not know it is wrong to do no matter what your guardian says or does. You cannot be held guilty for what you do not know but you can and will be responsible for right actions concerning what you do know and if you throw some fire on your dog knowing it will hurt him then you are guilty of wrong doing because you knew better.

    This principle is true of gentiles before the cross. God did not write anything to us as he did to Israel. He spoke to gentiles and what he said is what he holds them accountable for. Here it is.

    Romans 5:13
    (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    1 John 3:4
    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    The creation informed the world about God and spoke to the heathen.

    Psalms 19:1-6
    1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
    2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
    3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
    4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
    5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
    6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

    Until Jesus came.

    Acts 17:24-31
    24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    A commandment is a law and it goes out to every one, the text says. The commandment to every one in every place is to repent, which includes faith in Christ whom he punished for the sins of every one in every place.
     
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    There are still physical Jews & gentiles, regardless of their spiritual condition.
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Best theory I can come up with is that it'll replace Communion. We;ll just hafta wait for Jesus to tell us.
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I answered Tyndale 1946's question in my post # 109 & he hasn't replied.
     
  10. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    God sees three (3) classes of people in this age and he clearly says that in his word. If anyone has a more faithful authority than the word of God by which they can form their doctrines then I will not ever agree with them. The sciptures are my authority and if I say anything that disagrees with the scriptures it is not intentional. So I believe the following statement.

    1 Cor 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

    That is three subsets of people and they are distinct and separate. Jews and gentiles are unified only in the church of Jesus Christ, whose entrance is achieved in the name of Jesus Christ and by faith in his blood sacrifice to pay for our sins. The church is formed from believers out of the Jews and the gentiles. They become the body of Christ of which he is the head. They are spiritually baptized into the body when they believe.

    13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

    This is what is meant by the 78 times in 77 verses in the KJV that it is stated we are "in Christ." This is the reason the church is at peace with God, because he has made peace. This is the reason we are not dreading the wrath of God that will be realized real soon in his day of the Lord judgments, the great tribulation. It is because Jesus has already suffered the wrath of God once for us and if we are in him we can be sure God is not going to punish Christ the second time.

    The people who insist that God is going to include his church, the body and bride of Jesus Christ, in his wrath are stating clearly that they have no idea what and who the church of Jesus Christ is. They are teaching false and blasphemous doctrines.

    Eph 1

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he(God the Father) hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    7 In whom (In Christ) we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his (God the Father's) grace;

    9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

    10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    The salvation and election and predestination and the choosing of God is to choose Jesus Christ because if we are in him and if we are his body, it is Jesus Christ who God the Father is choosing and electing and predestinating and delivering.

    It is as plain as the nose on ones face.

    This Calvinism and all these things such as God is going to punish his church after they have run to Jesus Christ for safety are bogus teachings and I believe may be damnable in some cases.

    There is a pretrib rapture whether the boldest denier swears there is not.

    Thank God for Jesus Christ who has delivered us believers in him.
     
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  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Six hour warning -

    This thread will be closed no sooner than 430 pm EDT / 130 pm PDT
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    All those words and yet you completely ignored my question.

    Paul very clearly states Jews and Gentiles have been brought together as “one new man” by the cross to Jesus Christ. Both now, and in the “ages to come” they have access to God through the Spirit and this will demonstrate the grace of Jesus “in the ages to come”. This is a permanent “new man”.

    The can be no separate future for Israel and the church without undoing His work on the cross. That is impossible.

    peace to you
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    They are still distinct even though both make up the one body. Galatians 3:28.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Today, the Jews consider themselves the ONLY Israelis, saying the other tribes were lost & assimilated into other peoples, just as the Jews assimilated the Jebusites & some members of other peoples. However, Scripture says differently. Doubtlessly, the 10 tribes didn't remain distinct, as the Jews did, but there are peoples today descended from them, and, in God's sight, are members if the 10 tribes. And Scripture says they'll be united with the Jews as one nation again, as they were in the days before Rehoboam.
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Scripture says there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in the eyes of God.

    I will trust scripture over unbiblical dispensational theology.

    peace to you
     
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I perceive dispensational theology to be unbiblical and void of truth; a dangerous distortion of God’s word.

    Are you saying I am not “born again” because I don’t believe dispensational theology?

    Yes or no will do. No need to post volumes of scripture distorted by your unbiblical views.

    Additionally, you have failed to defend dispensationalism (there is no defense for false doctrine) and you continuously failed to answer simple questions from scripture that easily disprove dispensationalism.

    Peace to you
     
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he holds to a heretical view on salvation, way beyond the pale of even arminian theology!
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He holds to the Bible, you hold to Finneyism seems like!
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All did what they desired to do, were not mere robots!
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So would be symbolic, pointing towards the Cross of Christ, so all nations would be having that memorial unto him?
     
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