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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Aug 9, 2021.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Never said that.
     
    #21 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
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  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Imputation does not make one righteous, but declares one righteous. If that were the case, when Christ was imputed our sins, then He would have literally became a sinner, and that is taught nowhere in the Bible.
     
    #22 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
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  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Calvin taught universal atonement. That makes works the means of salvation. In this case, coerced works.

    I say the New Birth with the new nature in itself produces holiness. Our works never measure up and cannot be relied on. But we trust in Christ's imputed righteousness instead. This is in line with Limited Atonement.
     
    #23 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Where did John Calvin teach universal atonement? Got a link for me to read?
     
    #24 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to check yourself out before taking issue with others.
     
    #25 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Drop the attitude, okay? Let’s discuss this civilly.
     
    #26 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
  7. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    You’re conflating regeneration with imputation. Two entirely different subjects.
     
    #27 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Imputation is the basis for regeneration.
     
    #28 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I recall being attacked before saying anything.
     
    #29 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
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  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's questionable but many believe he did. How about proving he did not? But points 4 & 5 are logical with the universal atonement position and not Limited Atonement. So I believe he did.
     
    #30 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Well, you said he taught it, so I want a link to read it for myself.
     
    #31 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But they’re not one and the same.
     
    #32 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Go look it up and settle the score if you can.
     
    #33 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    So you think you earn Christ's righteousness in the sinful flesh?
     
    #34 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Quote me if you can. I think I said people claim he taught it. And it makes sense out of points 4 & 5 being illogical with Limited Atonement.
     
    #35 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    #36 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    From your post #23…

    “Calvin taught universal atonement.” You said it right there. I quoted you.
     
    #37 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Never said that.
     
    #38 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2021
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Does Calvin believe in limited Atonement or not? Many say that Calvin did not believe it. Dr. Nicole proves them quite wrong, but not without careful efforts.

    Even if true points 4 & 5 favor universal atonement.
     
    #39 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I gave a link proving myself wrong if Roger Nicole is right. I still think points 4 & 5 favor universal atonement.
     
    #40 1689Dave, Aug 10, 2021
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