Featured The Particular Mercy of God

MB · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

We agree, yet I add that it is not our faith. God is the giver of faith. I have provided adequate scripture to make this point.
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The bible says;
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Our minds are opened and our faith comes from God's word. Which is why we are commanded to preach it. So in that sense God did give us faith. He also gives us Salvation. God wants to save us and is why he paid the ransom to purchase us for Salvation. God has no limitations if He had them He would not be God.
MB

Silverhair · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

Sigh, your exegesis of Romans 3 neglects God's work in believing...even though the entire context of Paul's argument regarding justification by faith is predicated upon God's work being done in the person who has no capacity to believe outside of Jesus Christ.

We will not agree.
You love man as supreme leader in salvation or at least as equal contributor.
I love God as being supreme over all creation, guiding his creation with full authority and lovingly choosing to show mercy to whom he wills.
When you use scripture, you downplay God and lift up man. I cannot lift up man to the station you do. The Bible never does such a thing, even though you think it does.
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When I say that God has given us a free will you say that is trying to be equal or even superior to God when I show that God wants us to seek Him you dismiss it when you are shown that you understanding of numerous scriptures is in error you turn a blind eye to it.

You try to sound pious in your comments but sorry not happening. Calvinism has turned you from someone that trusted scripture into a parrot of the so called DoG and Calvinist dogma. Hopefully at some point you will trust in your God given free will and allow scripture to guide you once again.

Silverhair · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

We agree, yet I add that it is not our faith. God is the giver of faith. I have provided adequate scripture to make this point.
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That only works if read through a Calvinist filter. You deny clear scripture and want people to accept your Calvinist interpretation.

MB · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

We agree, yet I add that it is not our faith. God is the giver of faith. I have provided adequate scripture to make this point.
Click to expand...

Faith is what the scriptures are for if we want more of it all we have to do is read or listen to it being preached. It's called God's word because God designed it the way it is. It is His word that causes us to believe in Him and His intention. It's His communication to us I love God because of His benevolence towards us because He first loved us. His mercy to forgive my sins. His Guidance and His provision for our task we have ahead of us.
MB

Silverhair · Sep 30, 2021

For Calvinism to work you have to believe that God has removed all your ability to move toward Him when you hear the gospel message or see the wonders of creation. You have to hope that your one of the lucky chosen ones because if your not then you are condemned for no other reason than you did not get picked. Your faith is not yours as it had to be given to you by God so you can not even be sure if it is real.

As a Calvinist you cannot honestly say to anyone that God loves them and wants to saves them. If your Calvinism is the gospel as many of you claim then why not tell people what you really believe. Explain the DoG clearly and see the reaction you will get. I have listened to a number of your Calvinist preachers when they are expounding on the gospel and it's: if you believe, if you will trust in Christ Jesus but that is not Calvinism is it.

The bible is clear to those that read it, sans filters, that we are saved if we believe the gospel message. God expects us to use our intellect not to suppress it.

AustinC · Sep 30, 2021

MB said: ↑

The bible says;
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Our minds are opened and our faith comes from God's word. Which is why we are commanded to preach it. So in that sense God did give us faith. He also gives us Salvation. God wants to save us and is why he paid the ransom to purchase us for Salvation. God has no limitations if He had them He would not be God.
MB
Click to expand...

Let's take a look at Romans 10:3-17.

For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

The word of Christ is what brings faith. People hear the word. God makes them alive, rather than be dead, and God implants that word of faith within them. This is a particular work of God. God does not do this for everyone. He does this only to those whom he shows mercy.

Let's go on to Paul's treatise.

Romans 10:18-21 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”

Notice the Sovereign will of God. God tells us that it is not seeking of men and choosing of men that leads to salvation. It is God, showing himself to those who don't ask, who saves.

Can God be any clearer to you when He tells you point blank:
"I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

Paul continues the argument in Romans 11:2,4-6.

God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Now, I anticipate you will claim that Paul is only speaking to Jews, not Gentiles. Your claim would be wrong.

In Romans 11:11,15-20,24-27 we read:

So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means!

Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the othersand now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.

For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

I ask this: Can a human graft themselves in to the tree of life by their own free will?
No! By no means!!!
God cut us off from a wild and useless olive tree and God grafted us in.

Now, you can read and see this for yourself. Throw away the godless notion that you chose God by your free will. That philosophy is never expressed by God in his written word. Stop trying to give credit to humans and thereby taking away credit from God.

AustinC · Sep 30, 2021

Silverhair said: ↑

For Calvinism to work you have to believe that God has removed all your ability to move toward Him when you hear the gospel message or see the wonders of creation. You have to hope that your one of the lucky chosen ones because if your not then you are condemned for no other reason than you did not get picked. Your faith is not yours as it had to be given to you by God so you can not even be sure if it is real.

As a Calvinist you cannot honestly say to anyone that God loves them and wants to saves them. If your Calvinism is the gospel as many of you claim then why not tell people what you really believe. Explain the DoG clearly and see the reaction you will get. I have listened to a number of your Calvinist preachers when they are expounding on the gospel and it's: if you believe, if you will trust in Christ Jesus but that is not Calvinism is it.

The bible is clear to those that read it, sans filters, that we are saved if we believe the gospel message. God expects us to use our intellect not to suppress it.
Click to expand...

All readers, please note that Silverhair has fallen upon his strawman.
No longer being able to go to God's word, Silverhair creates a strawman he calls Calvinism, as his sure escape from the lack of scripture he has to make a bogus argument for his man-made philosophy of free will. I do not point to any dead person for Silverhair's folly. I point directly to the fact that he has no argument from God's Word. He has therefore no valid argument.

MB · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

Let's take a look at Romans 10:3-17.

For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

The word of Christ is what brings faith. People hear the word. God makes them alive, rather than be dead, and God implants that word of faith within them. This is a particular work of God. God does not do this for everyone. He does this only to those whom he shows mercy.

Let's go on to Paul's treatise.

Romans 10:18-21 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”

Notice the Sovereign will of God. God tells us that it is not seeking of men and choosing of men that leads to salvation. It is God, showing himself to those who don't ask, who saves.

Can God be any clearer to you when He tells you point blank:
"I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

Paul continues the argument in Romans 11:2,4-6.

God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Now, I anticipate you will claim that Paul is only speaking to Jews, not Gentiles. Your claim would be wrong.

In Romans 11:11,15-20,24-27 we read:

So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means!

Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the othersand now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.

For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

I ask this: Can a human graft themselves in to the tree of life by their own free will?
No! By no means!!!
God cut us off from a wild and useless olive tree and God grafted us in.

Now, you can read and see this for yourself. Throw away the godless notion that you chose God by your free will. That philosophy is never expressed by God in his written word. Stop trying to give credit to humans and thereby taking away credit from God.
Click to expand...

You just can't get past assuming. You try and tell me what I believe and you don't know what you your self believes. You claim you're elect but you can't prove it.. You claim God saved you before faith but you can't prove it. You claim the tulip is true but you can't prove any of it. You add to God's word and deny the rest of it. I'm done with you.
MB

Van · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

SNIP

It is the Creator, God, who particularly determined who his promised children are. It is by His mercy that a person believes. It is by the grace of God that anyone believes. Nowhere do we see that it is by the will of man that a person believes. It is always by the merciful choice of God that a person believes.
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God is reconciling the world to Himself. Reconciling, not has reconciled. Thus "it is the Creator, God, who particularly determines who His promised children will be." It is by the revelatory grace of God that anyone knows what to believe in. Even though we see people will to believe in Matthew 13, if God does not credit their faith, they fall away or believe they are saved but are not, as in Matthew 7. It is always by the merciful choice of God that a person is saved.

AustinC · Sep 30, 2021

MB said: ↑

You just can't get past assuming. You try and tell me what I believe and you don't know what you your self believes. You claim you're elect but you can't prove it.. You claim God saved you before faith but you can't prove it. You claim the tulip is true but you can't prove any of it. You add to God's word and deny the rest of it. I'm done with you.
MB
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You avoided the text and attacked me. I will let Paul's writing stand. You can avoid it, but that doesn't change what God tells you.

AustinC · Sep 30, 2021

MB said: ↑

You just can't get past assuming. You try and tell me what I believe and you don't know what you your self believes. You claim you're elect but you can't prove it.. You claim God saved you before faith but you can't prove it. You claim the tulip is true but you can't prove any of it. You add to God's word and deny the rest of it. I'm done with you.
MB
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MB, I have proved it with scripture after scripture. You simply will not accept what God shows you in his word. Don't blame anyone except yourself.

AustinC · Sep 30, 2021

Van said: ↑

God is reconciling the world to Himself. Reconciling, not has reconciled. Thus "it is the Creator, God, who particularly determines who His promised children will be." It is by the revelatory grace of God that anyone knows what to believe in. Even though we see people will to believe in Matthew 13, if God does not credit their faith, they fall away or believe they are saved but are not, as in Matthew 7. It is always by the merciful choice of God that a person is saved.
Click to expand...

I agree with your last sentence. Your teaching that it is YOUR faith, which God credits as righteousness is a bogus claim that many have refuted. There is no need for me to beat that dead dog.

Yeshua1 · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

I agree with your last sentence. Your teaching that it is YOUR faith, which God credits as righteousness is a bogus claim that many have refuted. There is no need for me to beat that dead dog.
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indeed, as even that so called saving faith is the gift from God towards His own elect in Christ!

Van · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

I agree with your last sentence. Your teaching that it is YOUR faith, which God credits as righteousness is a bogus claim that many have refuted. There is no need for me to beat that dead dog.
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Scripture say God credited "his faith" as righteousness. Your bogus view, from the saddle of a dead horse is the rewrite "his God instilled faith" as righteousness. Never mind God would not need to credit God's instilled faith as righteousness. No matter the evidence, Calvinism's advocates will say "taint so!"

Iconoclast · Sep 30, 2021

thomas15,

Hello Thomas, I see you did not respond to what I posted. You are concerned in this post with me, my posting, my opinions, my beliefs.I will gladly answer you on these issues.

A quick review of this thread will reveal that you Sir are one such Calvinist that informs those who disagree with you and your doctrine that we lack understanding. Those are your exact words.
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They are my exact words and if I posted them I will not only stick with them, but I will clarify and expand on them as I have some time today.
When I respond in the way you are describing;

"A Calvinist that informs those who disagree with you and your doctrine that we lack understanding"

Thomas, Is there any remote possibility That some of the non Cals do lack understanding?
If that is possible what should we say to them?
Let's keep in mind we are not speaking of novices, but rather some who come in to interact with pure motives,honest questions,and inquiries.

Most are in the middle on the issues, they have honest questions,are working through the issues.
They have taken the time to do accurate research before commenting, or making strawmen.

Others come just to attack, being internet trolls.Not only do they come to attack, but the "attack is totally ignorant and not close to biblical truth. For example...to deny that the Human race was plunged into a condition of spiritual death at the Fall....is to totally lack understanding that is foundational error that cannot be overcome.
Such a person should not be posting, but rather reading scripture, or a good commentary to learn.
A new believer might not have heard some verses or ideas that are needful to understand.
Everyone helps such a person.

Is it safe to say that since you are fully capable of informing others of lacking understanding
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"fully capable"??? I am still learning many things day by day, in scripture and daily life.
If i am not able at this point to address and correct obvious error, i should not post.
If i have listened to countless sermons, read and studied all manner of study books, I am not going to set aside what i know to be true.

If a JW uses your argument here against any Christian who explains to him that he lacks understanding on the trinity, should the Christian say..."oh you might be right" or should the Christian make the scriptural case that we worship the triune God?

[QUOTE]that may we conclude that you personally do not lack such understanding?[/QUOTE]

When it comes to the 5 points i am quite confident that God has equipped me to stand for those truths.
In several years on several message boards, very few have challenged my understanding, and forced me to modify and upgrade my understanding. one such person was Biblicist,who i enjoyed tangling with and more than once I believe he had more than i did on a topic and i was thankful for the biblical correction.Some of the administrators and Mods have helped on my approach or attitude which was sometimes too intense in several of my responses.
They do not necessarily agree with me on some of the discussions we have, howeverthey offered biblical advise and correction.

There are many things i lack understanding on. I have several weaknesses that i constantly look to strengthen.

Using this understanding that you have and by your own words you have determined that I don't have, answer this.
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Thomas, I offer correction from scripture when i see the need for it. If the person takes it or not, I do what i know to do. That is true with Cals , or non cals.We are our brothers keeper.
Sometimes if it is a Calvinist, it is easier to offer a suggestion that they will think on. I am slightly more reluctant to offer public correction because some will twist it to attack the person, which was not what I intended.

Having confessed my need for a Savior, having place my faith and trust in Christ Crucified
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I am glad that you openly profess your need to trust the Lord Jesus for salvation.
next you say;

"having place my faith and trust in Christ Crucified"...
Thomas, if it is a God given saving faith, that you exercised af the time you were regenerated,as an instrumentality to lay hold of Christ that would be great.
If you are stating the YOU HAD FAITH INSIDE YOU,AND YOU PLACED IT in Jesus....i would be sceptical as I would when A RC says they are saved because they have faith in their baptism and the Eucharist.
Such a 'faith" could be a mere human trust, worked up in the flesh.
Scripture speaks of many who..."believed in vain"
1cor15:
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you,
unless ye have believed in vain.

You asked me, that is how i think about it.

but denying some or all of TULIP, including but not limited to a limited atonement, am I based on your understanding condemned to everlasting hell? Simple question I think.
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I take people at their profession and open confession of Christ.
If red flags appear, I am not as confident of their profession and try and offer seeds of gospel salvation for them to consider.
Believing the 5points to be the truth of the gospel explained from scripture, the more a person deviates the more cautious I become with them. I do not see where God has called me to be their judge, Jesus pretty much has that covered, however we are to watch, and seek to help when we can.

AustinC · Sep 30, 2021

Van said: ↑

Scripture say God credited "his faith" as righteousness. Your bogus view, from the saddle of a dead horse is the rewrite "his God instilled faith" as righteousness. Never mind God would not need to credit God's instilled faith as righteousness. No matter the evidence, Calvinism's advocates will say "taint so!"
Click to expand...

Abraham's faith was given to him by God. Abraham, by his own nature, was a scoundrel, twice lying and giving away his wife ti save himself. That, by the way, is not saving faith. That is cowardice. This is precisely why Paul points us to know that faith is given to us by God's grace and mercy. God chose Abraham far before Abraham ever had faith. God did not choose someone else from the land of Ur or Canaan or Egypt or China or South America or... God chose Abraham, not because Abraham was righteous, but because God has a very particular plan for this creation and Abraham was the man God chose. God graciously gave Abraham faith to execute that plan. God counted that faith, which came from God, as the object that made unrighteous Abraham, righteous. It was that faith, which came from God, which justified Abraham. It was that faith, which came from God, that caused Abraham to do the works God ordained him to do (go up the mountain and be able to sacrifice Isaac).

Your bogus view that Abraham had a faith of his own making is destroyed by scripture itself. Stop foisting your bogus view on us.

Van · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

Abraham's faith was given to him by God. Abraham, by his own nature, was a scoundrel, twice lying and giving away his wife ti save himself. That, by the way, is not saving faith. That is cowardice. This is precisely why Paul points us to know that faith is given to us by God's grace and mercy. God chose Abraham far before Abraham ever had faith. God did not choose someone else from the land of Ur or Canaan or Egypt or China or South America or... God chose Abraham, not because Abraham was righteous, but because God has a very particular plan for this creation and Abraham was the man God chose. God graciously gave Abraham faith to execute that plan. God counted that faith, which came from God, as the object that made unrighteous Abraham, righteous. It was that faith, which came from God, which justified Abraham. It was that faith, which came from God, that caused Abraham to do the works God ordained him to do (go up the mountain and be able to sacrifice Isaac).

Your bogus view that Abraham had a faith of his own making is destroyed by scripture itself. Stop foisting your bogus view on us.
Click to expand...

On and on folks, scripture says God credited Abraham's faith, the Calvinist advocate claims Abraham's faith was given to him (instilled via irresistible grace).
Did anyone say Abraham (or anyone else) conjures us "saving faith" which God then recognizes? Nope - thus another red herring.

ad finitum · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

It's called pridefulness and curiosity regarding what they comsidered a new philosophy.

Notice that Paul spoke and then some believed. God always does the work first, which causes belief.

Acts 17:17-34 So he reasonedin the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean.” Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new. So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’ Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.” So Paul went out from their midst. But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.
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thomas15 · Sep 30, 2021

Iconoclast said: ↑

thomas15,

Hello Thomas, I see you did not respond to what I posted. You are concerned in this post with me, my posting, my opinions, my beliefs.I will gladly answer you on these issues.

They are my exact words and if I posted them I will not only stick with them, but I will clarify and expand on them as I have some time today.
When I respond in the way you are describing;

"A Calvinist that informs those who disagree with you and your doctrine that we lack understanding"

Thomas, Is there any remote possibility That some of the non Cals do lack understanding?
If that is possible what should we say to them?
Let's keep in mind we are not speaking of novices, but rather some who come in to interact with pure motives,honest questions,and inquiries.

Most are in the middle on the issues, they have honest questions,are working through the issues.
They have taken the time to do accurate research before commenting, or making strawmen.

Others come just to attack, being internet trolls.Not only do they come to attack, but the "attack is totally ignorant and not close to biblical truth. For example...to deny that the Human race was plunged into a condition of spiritual death at the Fall....is to totally lack understanding that is foundational error that cannot be overcome.
Such a person should not be posting, but rather reading scripture, or a good commentary to learn.
A new believer might not have heard some verses or ideas that are needful to understand.
Everyone helps such a person.

"fully capable"??? I am still learning many things day by day, in scripture and daily life.
If i am not able at this point to address and correct obvious error, i should not post.
If i have listened to countless sermons, read and studied all manner of study books, I am not going to set aside what i know to be true.

If a JW uses your argument here against any Christian who explains to him that he lacks understanding on the trinity, should the Christian say..."oh you might be right" or should the Christian make the scriptural case that we worship the triune God?

When it comes to the 5 points i am quite confident that God has equipped me to stand for those truths.
In several years on several message boards, very few have challenged my understanding, and forced me to modify and upgrade my understanding. one such person was Biblicist,who i enjoyed tangling with and more than once I believe he had more than i did on a topic and i was thankful for the biblical correction.Some of the administrators and Mods have helped on my approach or attitude which was sometimes too intense in several of my responses.
They do not necessarily agree with me on some of the discussions we have, howeverthey offered biblical advise and correction.

There are many things i lack understanding on. I have several weaknesses that i constantly look to strengthen.

Thomas, I offer correction from scripture when i see the need for it. If the person takes it or not, I do what i know to do. That is true with Cals , or non cals.We are our brothers keeper.
Sometimes if it is a Calvinist, it is easier to offer a suggestion that they will think on. I am slightly more reluctant to offer public correction because some will twist it to attack the person, which was not what I intended.

I am glad that you openly profess your need to trust the Lord Jesus for salvation.
next you say;

"having place my faith and trust in Christ Crucified"...
Thomas, if it is a God given saving faith, that you exercised af the time you were regenerated,as an instrumentality to lay hold of Christ that would be great.
If you are stating the YOU HAD FAITH INSIDE YOU,AND YOU PLACED IT in Jesus....i would be sceptical as I would when A RC says they are saved because they have faith in their baptism and the Eucharist.
Such a 'faith" could be a mere human trust, worked up in the flesh.
Scripture speaks of many who..."believed in vain"
1cor15:
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you,
unless ye have believed in vain.

You asked me, that is how i think about it.

I take people at their profession and open confession of Christ.
If red flags appear, I am not as confident of their profession and try and offer seeds of gospel salvation for them to consider.
Believing the 5points to be the truth of the gospel explained from scripture, the more a person deviates the more cautious I become with them. I do not see where God has called me to be their judge, Jesus pretty much has that covered, however we are to watch, and seek to help when we can.
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I ask a simple question that could be answered with a yes or no.

Allow me to ask it again:
Having confessed my need for a Savior, having place my faith and trust in Christ Crucified but denying some or all of TULIP, including but not limited to a limited atonement, am I based on your understanding condemned to everlasting hell?

Silverhair · Sep 30, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

All readers, please note that Silverhair has fallen upon his strawman.
No longer being able to go to God's word, Silverhair creates a strawman he calls Calvinism, as his sure escape from the lack of scripture he has to make a bogus argument for his man-made philosophy of free will. I do not point to any dead person for Silverhair's folly. I point directly to the fact that he has no argument from God's Word. He has therefore no valid argument.
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Austin all that a person has to do is read the LBCF or your DoG to see that what I said about calvinism is correct. You can call it a strawman all you wish but the truth is still the truth. Why you continue to follow that theology is beyond understanding because it does not comport with scripture unless you twist it or change the meaning of words.

You will most likely claim that I hate the truth or do not understand calvinism or some other such canard but the reality is that I love the truth which is the bible not a man made theology.

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