Featured Can you prove by Scripture

Stockholm syndrome so everyone get this from being confined against there will. This a legal term for set me free from Jail for the most part. Not to mention I do not believe in that Garbage either.

This is just your theory none of what you have said here proves anything.

This may be what you believe but I disagree. Anyone can leave slavery. Many have and many still do. Simply by there freewill.

Slavery is very breakable. Just look at all the slaves that use to be in America.Look to those slaves for there out standing freedom of there own will. You haven't got a leg to stand on. You haven't proven anything

Absolute nonsense.

Don't you know that reading such materials just indoctrinates you deeper into Calvinism. I'm not interested in the writings of men What men think does not impress me. Especially on spiritual matters. The Bible is all I need and they disagree with Mr Edwards
MB

 

God knowing what is going to happen does not in any way cause all things to happen. If you hold onto that idea then you have to place the responsibility for all sin on God.
Think through what you are holding to. Your determinism is your big problem. You have to have God determine everything then you have to jump through hoops of your own making to save Him from the position that you put Him in.
God has a plan and His plan will be fulfilled. He just does not need your determinism to accomplish His plan.

 

The Bible does not teach that man's will is free and unbiased.
It just isn't there.
If you can find it, please post the Scriptures that tell us this.

However, I've looked and I can find nothing that tells me that man is actually willing to heed the commands of our Creator, unless it's for selfish reasons such as agreeing to anything to save one's life;
Only to go back on our word and back into disobeying Him once the "heat" is off.

We as men make rational choices every day.
We don't need the Lord's help to do that.

But, we do need Him to change our hearts and minds when it comes to desiring sin, and the pleasures of it.

 

Sure I do.
But it seems that you believe that God has indeed given men a choice of whether or not to believe on Christ.
Would you please list those passages for the benefit of the reader?

According to the Scriptures and the way that I understand them, given the choice, we would not choose to repent and believe.
It would require giving up that which we love, and approaching Who we hate in true and genuine repentance and reconciliation.

That's exactly what I do, but I thank you for the encouragement just the same.

Respectfully, intellect has nothing to do with obeying the Lord.
The matter comes down to willingness on our part.

I'm sorry, but from my perspective it seems that you've misunderstood what's being presented, especially the Scriptures that are involved.

I suggest this...Begin at Romans 1:18-32.
Keep going to Romans 2, then Romans 3.
By the time you hit the end of Romans 3, I think you should have enough information to see how mankind really treats the Lord apart from His "waking us up".

Being "dumb" has nothing to do with our sinful and rebellious attitude...
Being naturally resistant to Him and His words, is our problem.

 

I cannot speak for anyone else here, but I already know.
I will stand on the Lord Jesus' right hand ( Matthew 25:31-46 ) at the Judgment...not by my choice, but because of God's choice;
As will anyone who truly believes on Christ Jesus.

I've been doing that since the Lord called me by His grace, and much more the past 20 years or so.
I can find nothing, in its proper context, that contradicts what the so-called "Calvinist" calls, "Total Depravity".

I'm sorry that you feel that way.
What I can say is, "I do indeed trust the Scriptures...each and every word."

Do you believe every word in that precious book?
I hope so, my friend.

Again, I cannot speak for anyone else on this board, but if you'd like to go through a few passages line by line and verse by verse,
I'd be more than happy to tell you how I see them.

I'm sorry to see this.
Perhaps you would clarify where you see the Scriptures being twisted, by quoting a passage where you see this being done...at least for my benefit.

You'll get no "flame war" from me, sir.
That is not my purpose here.

 

As many times as you have been asked to actually look at your DoG and LBCF what I get is well it must be true because I believe it. Well if you can live with the DoG that makes you a puppet then so be it. Critical thinking must not be important to you. Even your LBCF or WCF which ever you think is best have so many contradictions and evasions in them it shows just how bad a man made text can be.
You said you read the post I did to Austin but you still do not see that God expects man to think. You want one that saves you before you believe and then drops faith into you so you can believe. Sad real sad.
You keep following your DoG and LBCF I will follow that Bible and Christ Jesus.

 

Silverhair,

t.

God determines ...not us;
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

You cling to the invented carnal philosophy of a will that is "free".
this is not a biblical teaching, it is carnal human philosophy of the natural man, who is not saved.

It is the case that you have not discovered yet.

 

Silverhair,

.

Can you show any post where I said any such thing?? Post the post where I said that?

 

This assertion is, of course, false and is a strawman that is illogical, yet you assert it without care.

I don't use any of these as my guide. I use scripture alone. This is also another strawman of your own making.
So much of this discussion is you making up an argument that you then argue against. It's fascinating to watch you fight with yourself.

No one has argued that humans don't have a will or that, within the ordained will of God, they act on this will. You seem incapable of grasping the nuance between actions of the will that God allows verses actions of the will that cannot happen. Here's a simple example: A man can will himself to fly by simply flapping his arms. He is free to try. But, no man has the capacity to fly by simply flapping his arms. Therefore he has a will, but he has no freedom to will himself to fly. The will is confined.
So, a human can never will himself to choose God because the person in the flesh cannot do so. (Romans 8 & Ephesians 2)

Of course I do. You simply despise what I write.

Correct, this is your strawman.

There is the strawman that no one argues.

[/QUOTE]then that requires that all things are directed by their master.[/QUOTE]
There is no then, because your "if" is a figment of your imagination.

I have shown you that your imagined assertion is only in your mind and nowhere else.

You mean the view presented in Romans 8-11 as well as Ephesians 1?
I can quote these passages once again for you. Will you still say the Bible isn't biblical? I don't even have to explain anything from these passages as they explain themselves. However, you work hard to explain them away to maintain your strawman philosophy about a free will never expressed anywhere in the Bible.

Amen!

The law reveals this to a man. If a man knows not the law, they won't know they are sinners, but they will be guilty nonetheless.

Amen

Amen

Amen

Amen

Amen. God must drag the person to himself.

Here, you must either claim universalism or admit that a limited number of people from all nations, tribes and tongues are dragged in by God.

And here is where you are doing the limiting so as to avoid universalism. You divide people by their own feelings about sin. I divide people by God's choice of persons who will know their sin and bow before God. God must drag them to have their sin revealed and cause them to know the weight of their sin.

You leave it to men to feel their own sinfulness apart from God.

Amen

Amen

Jesus, here, tells you who will believe.

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

Salvation is to be shared to all. It is only belied by those whom the Father has given to Jesus.

Amen

Here we will differ in our interpretation of what the "all" means.

If the all is universal, then every human would no longer be held guilty for their sins. Jesus would pay the ransom for their sins in full and God would have no justification for condemning anyone to hell. I wonder how you dance around that reality.

John is, however, telling his audience that Jesus is not only the propitiation for he and them, but for all in the world who believe. This is consistent with all the other verses that you have provided as well as what I have provided.

Silverhair, are you a proponent of universalism?

Amen!

Is God's desire unable to be fulfilled because man's will is more powerful than God's desire?
Of course not. The context tells us how to understand this verse.

1 Timothy 2:1-6 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

We see that salvation isn't just for the poor or slaves or common workers. God will save from all types of people and it is God's desire to do so. This is why we pray for all people, as well as kings and those in high places. God saves kings as well as paupers.

Amen, yet, only those who believe are saved. I already quoted you Jesus words from John 10. Jesus tells you that all whom the Father gives him will believe. Will you ignore Jesus words in order to maintain a position that is made of straw?

 

I had my say on post #28... but speaking of Jonathan Edwards, my wife a retired English teacher of the public school system in Southern California, in their literature book that was required reading, was Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God... I guess you just can't keep God out of school... Brother Glen

 

So you deny that you trust in your DoG & LBCF. Your posts say otherwise.

 

>>Here, you must either claim universalism or admit that a limited number of people from all nations, tribes and tongues are dragged in by God. <<

Nice of you to admit that your version of God has to drag people into heaven. That is not what the bible says but then you know that you just ignore it.
You seem quite content to ignore scripture and just hold on to your false view of God. Sorry but God will not fit into the little box you want to keep Him in. God loves the world and wants all to come to repentance, that is His desire for mankind. The reality is that not all will chose to accept the offer, that's biblical.
By your own words God has to drag people into heaven so they are not there because they love Him but because He forced them to be. Where do you get this twisted view because it sure is not in the bible.


Omni Argument Against Calvinism
1. If 5-point Calvinism (and “Irresistible Grace”) is true, then for any person X, if God desires to, has the power to, and knows how to cause X to go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell, then X will go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell.

2. If God is omnibenevolent {All-loving, or infinitely good}, omnipotent {is all-powerful}, and omniscient {seeing all or knowing all}, then for any person X, God desires to, has the power to, and knows how to cause X to go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell.

3. There is at least one person who will not go to Heaven and suffer eternally in Hell.

4. Therefore, one cannot affirm both {1} that 5-point Calvinism is true and {2} that God is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient.
It is intuitively obvious (a properly basic belief) and we simply know that good judges do not give death sentences to people as a punishment for crimes these individuals are not responsible for.

Paul affirms premise {2 above} in 1Ti_2:4 “[God] desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Therefore, if one affirms that God possesses His omni attributes maximally, and that 1Ti_2:4 is true, and that some people do suffer eternal Hell, then it logically follows that they must reject 5-point Calvinism.

1- If Calvinism is true, whomever God provides “irresistible grace” to will go to Heaven and not suffer eternal Hell.

2- If God is omnibenevolent, He would not desire to, nor would He, send anyone to suffer eternal Hell for choices they were powerless to make without God’s irresistible grace.

3- If God is omnipotent, he could provide irresistible grace to all people.

4- If God is omniscient, he would know how to provide irresistible grace to all people.

5- Some people suffer eternal Hell.

6- Therefore, either God is not omnibenevolent, or not omnipotent, or not omniscient (pick at least one), or irresistible grace (and Calvinism) is false.

 

Not only did you not respond to the posts but now change your statement because I never said any such thing.you cannot show it because like your theology you made it up.
I never said the 1689 is true Because I. Believe it.

 

So you don't believe the LBCF or DoG. Good to know. So what do you believe?

 

It's simple to admit that the greek word used in John 6 that your English translation has as "draw" means "to drag." It is the idea of bringing water up from a well. The water doesn't go up the side of the well by its own choosing. It must have a bucket thrown down and then a force stronger than gravity must draw the water up out of the well. Thus the word "draw" in John 6 gives no room for free will choice, but instead conveys that the work is entirely God's doing when he draws people to himself.
Are you unaware of this fact, Silverhair? John 6 does not support your view at all.

 

Believing in the gospel means I'm already saved. There is nothing else that can do what God's word has already done in me After all it is the power of Salvation. Not Mr. Edwards.. All the Calvinist here have convinced me that Calvinism is not the path of truth No one has ever proven their doctrines to be true. There is far to many wholes in it. God's word never says we are saved before faith. God's word never says Salvation is for a special elect. There is no election for Gentiles. Men are chosen for reasons of service This does not make them Jews.nor does it save them. Calvinism has already proven it self wrong.There is no irresistible grace this idea is a slap in the face of God. It alone destroys the attraction of my Lord as if no one would ever believe in Him with out force. Men have sought God since Adam. There is no inability in seeking God. The atonement is not limited to just the elect. There is simply no truth at all in Calvinism.
MB

 

Silver hair
It looks as if you are having trouble with basic honesty.
Your posts are loaded with assertions but when you are asked to prove them you hide from answering.This is dishonest.
Your first sentence here says;
WHAT I GET FROM YOU IS THE 1689 CONFESSION IS TRUE BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT.

To be clear-
I asked you to post any post where I said it is true- BECAUSE I believed it??? As if my subjective belief was the deciding factor.
To be clear-
The 1689 is very clear and a true summary of bible truth because it is Christ centered and is scripturally based overall.
I do not believe the Pope was THE ANTICHRIST....he was antichrist but.not THE antichrist.
However on matters of faith and practice it is spot on.
Your changing of the wording when I asked you to demonstrate what you posted, is indicative of a person caught not being truthful.

 

You want to know what people believe? Read what we write.
Tell me, when have I quoted from a source outside of the Bible in this discussion thread?
Please acknowledge that you are the one who has brought up external documents in which you contend with yourself. When you write, it's like watching a schizophrenic argue with himself, completely unaware that the bystanders have never stated anything that the schizophrenic is arguing.

Now, large passages of God's word have been provided to you.

I have answered all your verses you used to try argue for free will. I contend that your scriptural argument has no merit and even show you that you misunderstand scripture. It is in that arena where the argument lies. If you cannot stick with scripture alone...you will be arguing with yourself, like a schizophrenic.