1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Arminianism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Nov 24, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 2 of 8
  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Which artice in particular? (I suspect rhe fourth, but it falls short of attributing salvation to man's decision).
     
    #21 JonC, Nov 25, 2021
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As you say, "not resisting" = self-salvation. The mule that doesn't refuse drinking water saves itself from dehydration.
     
    #22 1689Dave, Nov 25, 2021
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. I am not saying non-resisting = salvation. I am saying anti-Arminianism arguments remove what they believe from an Arminian context and place it into a Calvinistic context to defeat the argument.

    Was Christ wrong to say men must repent and believe? Of course not. But if it were another person using those words it would be easy to say it's a work-based salvation.
     
    #23 JonC, Nov 25, 2021
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Belief comes from experiencing the New Birth. When it happens you cannot doubt it. Can you doubt if someone gave you a pat on the back? Of course not. And repentance is in the nature of the New Birth as you begin loathing sin.
     
    #24 1689Dave, Nov 25, 2021
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    more misleading LIES!
     
    #25 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    DON'T just pick the verses you like!

    Read Acts 7:51, "“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always RESIST the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do"
     
    #26 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Biblical INDEED. Now we wait for the Scriprure WRESTERS to come here and post their UNBIBLICAL nonsense! It is usually the same guys!
     
    #27 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Don't forget, I'm not an Arminian....just want to keep making this clear ;). I believe Arminianism and Calvinism equally wrong.

    Arminianism does not make the separations Calvinism does. God brings men to repentance and belief (per Arminianism) and belief is entirely a work of God through the Holy Spirit.
     
    #28 JonC, Nov 25, 2021
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Regardless of what you think, your words place you in one of three categories. 1) God alone saves sinners. 2) People save themselves with God's help. And 3) People save themselves without God's help.
     
    #29 1689Dave, Nov 25, 2021
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    where is the WORK in saying NO? How this be seen as "merit" in any way? No one who RFEJECTS the Gospel, as we see time and again in the Bible, is "LABOURING" in this! Don't fall for the LIES of the "reformed" in this.
     
    #30 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    you mean that God "believes" for the sinner?
     
    #31 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
  12. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is a confounding use of "will".
    God's will, in the sense of "desire", is frustrated all the time.
    Every sin of man is man's will trumping God's will (desire).
    Unless you think God wills the sins.
     
    #32 George Antonios, Nov 25, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'd say the work in not believing is it entail remaining in charge and relying on ourselves.

    But biblically you are correct. Both belief and rejecting a truth are not works. In Scripture "works" refer to works of the Law or of the flesh intended to earn or demonstrate righteousness.
     
    #33 JonC, Nov 25, 2021
  14. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Precisely.
     
    #34 George Antonios, Nov 25, 2021
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, I am speaking of Arminianism (I belueve Arminianism and Calvinism equally wrong).

    With Arminianism the idea is Christ draws all men.
     
    #35 JonC, Nov 25, 2021
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ does draw the entire human race. That is the Beauty of Salvation
     
    #36 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul constantly contradistinguishes faith from works. Believing is set in opposition to work, yea contrasted as opposite, in all Paul's epistles.

    WORK
    Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    FAITH
    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    WORK
    Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
    FAITH
    Rom 10:6 BUT the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

    Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

    Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    WORK
    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
    FAITH
    BUT by the faith     of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,

    and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    WORK
    Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:
    FAITH
    for, The just shall live by faith.

    Gal 3:12 And the law is

    NOT OF FAITH: but, The man that DOETH them shall live in them.

    The whole "free will faith is a work" argument is human reasoning, not scriptural theology. You can't show it in the scriptures. It's a human rationalization, it's a philosophical argument, as evidenced by a plethora of buzzwords like "synergism". That argument, that faith = work is the one wherewith Pelagius tricked Augustine.
     
    #37 George Antonios, Nov 25, 2021
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In the Book of Jonah chapter 3 when Jonah takes the Gospel, and all of the people from the King to the least agrees with the Just demands of the Lord, they REPENT. interesting in the KJV 3.10 reads

    Jonah 3:10
    And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way (REPENTED); and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

    This is not theology but what the Bible actually says
     
    #38 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Also interesting

    Acts 10:34-35
    Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him

    How do you understand this
     
    #39 SavedByGrace, Nov 25, 2021
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,518
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The heavenly born are the only ones that really have a choice.
     
    #40 kyredneck, Nov 25, 2021
Page 2 of 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...