Arminianism

[JonC]

Arminian articles of the Remonstrance reveal the overarching idea that man must cooperate with God in a synergism and juxtaposition in order for salvation to be complete. Failure on man's part will result in eternal damnation.

To me, such reliance on human assistance and cooperation cannot result in salvation because all human effort falls short of the glory of God.
Paul's writing in Ephesians 2:1-10 makes this quite clear as the greek word(s) translated as dead in trespasses and sins convey the idea that humans attempted to get to God on their own and missed the mark so badly that they died in the attempt. Thus, the only means of salvation is for God to make a person alive and then take that person and not only hit the mark, but actually surpass the mark so that there is no doubt in their salvation.
When humans are relied upon to cooperate in a synergism to be saved, it is sure that the human attempt will fall short of the mark and thus fail in the attempt.
Because humans always fail to hit the mark, I hold to a monergist salvation where human failure is not relied upon. God and God alone accomplishes our salvation. Our assistance only ensures our incapacity and failure. It must be God and God alone.

Which artice in particular? (I suspect rhe fourth, but it falls short of attributing salvation to man's decision).

 

[1689Dave]

As you say, "not resisting" = self-salvation. The mule that doesn't refuse drinking water saves itself from dehydration.

 

[JonC]

As you say, "not resisting" = self-salvation. The mule that doesn't refuse drinking water saves itself from dehydration.

No. I am not saying non-resisting = salvation. I am saying anti-Arminianism arguments remove what they believe from an Arminian context and place it into a Calvinistic context to defeat the argument.

Was Christ wrong to say men must repent and believe? Of course not. But if it were another person using those words it would be easy to say it's a work-based salvation.

 

[1689Dave]

No. I am not saying non-resisting = salvation. I am saying anti-Arminianism arguments remove what they believe from an Arminian context and place it into a Calvinistic context to defeat the argument.

Was Christ wrong to say men must repent and believe? Of course not. But if it were another person using those words it would be easy to say it's a work-based salvation.

Belief comes from experiencing the New Birth. When it happens you cannot doubt it. Can you doubt if someone gave you a pat on the back? Of course not. And repentance is in the nature of the New Birth as you begin loathing sin.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Will of man trumping will of God!

more misleading LIES!

 

[SavedByGrace]

“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:18–24 (KJV 1900)

DON'T just pick the verses you like!

Read Acts 7:51, "“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always RESIST the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do"

 

[SavedByGrace]

Disclaimer- I don't have a dog on the hunt when it comes to Calvinism vs Arminianism as I am neither. I am posting because I see a trend in portraying Arminianism as something it is not (at least by the 5 Articles).

Arminianism presents men as completely unable to come to God. I understand Wesleyan Arminianism differs (and, like Calvinism, there are different versions). But Arminianism itself (Classic or Reformation Arminianism) rests entirely on God when it comes to salvation.

The difference is that Arminianism affords men the ability to reject salvation. This distinction is important because far too many object to Arminianism by erroneously claiming it teaches that men, apart from God, can choose salvation. This is simply not true.

It is also incorrect to present Arminianism (again, Classic or Reformation Arminianism) as holding that men corporates with God to be saved.

In short, Arminianism holds that God alone saves, but men can rebell and reject that salvation.

Biblical INDEED. Now we wait for the Scriprure WRESTERS to come here and post their UNBIBLICAL nonsense! It is usually the same guys!

 

[JonC]

Belief comes from experiencing the New Birth. When it happens you cannot doubt it. Can you doubt if someone gave you a pat on the back? Of course not. And repentance is in the nature of the New Birth as you begin loathing sin.

Don't forget, I'm not an Arminian....just want to keep making this clear . I believe Arminianism and Calvinism equally wrong.

Arminianism does not make the separations Calvinism does. God brings men to repentance and belief (per Arminianism) and belief is entirely a work of God through the Holy Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

Don't forget, I'm not an Arminian....just want to keep making this clear . I believe Arminianism and Calvinism equally wrong.

Arminianism does not make the separations Calvinism does. God brings men to repentance and belief (per Arminianism) and belief is entirely a work of God through the Holy Spirit.

Regardless of what you think, your words place you in one of three categories. 1) God alone saves sinners. 2) People save themselves with God's help. And 3) People save themselves without God's help.

 

[SavedByGrace]

No. The work is rejecting. Work requires effort on the part of the worker. Within Arminianism the work is in the rejecting.

where is the WORK in saying NO? How this be seen as "merit" in any way? No one who RFEJECTS the Gospel, as we see time and again in the Bible, is "LABOURING" in this! Don't fall for the LIES of the "reformed" in this.

 

[SavedByGrace]

belief is entirely a work of God through the Holy Spirit

you mean that God "believes" for the sinner?

 

[George Antonios]

Will of man trumping will of God!

This is a confounding use of "will".
God's will, in the sense of "desire", is frustrated all the time.
Every sin of man is man's will trumping God's will (desire).
Unless you think God wills the sins.

 

[JonC]

where is the WORK in saying NO? How this be seen as "merit" in any way? No one who RFEJECTS the Gospel, as we see time and again in the Bible, is "LABOURING" in this! Don't fall for the LIES of the "reformed" in this.

I'd say the work in not believing is it entail remaining in charge and relying on ourselves.

But biblically you are correct. Both belief and rejecting a truth are not works. In Scripture "works" refer to works of the Law or of the flesh intended to earn or demonstrate righteousness.

 

[George Antonios]

Both belief and rejecting a truth are not works. In Scripture "works" refer to works of the Law or of the flesh intended to earn or demonstrate righteousness.

Precisely.

 

[JonC]

you mean that God "believes" for the sinner?

Again, I am speaking of Arminianism (I belueve Arminianism and Calvinism equally wrong).

With Arminianism the idea is Christ draws all men.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Again, I am speaking of Arminianism (I belueve Arminianism and Calvinism equally wrong).

With Arminianism the idea is Christ draws all men.

Christ does draw the entire human race. That is the Beauty of Salvation

 

[George Antonios]

the works of not rejecting it.

Paul constantly contradistinguishes faith from works. Believing is set in opposition to work, yea contrasted as opposite, in all Paul's epistles.

WORK
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
FAITH
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

WORK
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
FAITH
Rom 10:6 BUT the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

WORK
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
FAITH
BUT by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,

and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

WORK
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:
FAITH
for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12 And the law is

NOT OF FAITH: but, The man that DOETH them shall live in them.

The whole "free will faith is a work" argument is human reasoning, not scriptural theology. You can't show it in the scriptures. It's a human rationalization, it's a philosophical argument, as evidenced by a plethora of buzzwords like "synergism". That argument, that faith = work is the one wherewith Pelagius tricked Augustine.

 

[SavedByGrace]

In the Book of Jonah chapter 3 when Jonah takes the Gospel, and all of the people from the King to the least agrees with the Just demands of the Lord, they REPENT. interesting in the KJV 3.10 reads

Jonah 3:10
And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way (REPENTED); and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

This is not theology but what the Bible actually says

 

[SavedByGrace]

Also interesting

Acts 10:34-35
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him

How do you understand this

 

[kyredneck]

If they were born again, they would not, or could not reject anything related.

The heavenly born are the only ones that really have a choice.