Arminianism

[Silverhair]

See what I have bolded. This passage is all about God doing the work, being the cause, while our actions are the effect.

That is what he bible says but you have to go beyond the bible and fail to see the scriptures that has God require us to have faith before He saves us. I have no problem with all of the bible, you should try that sometime. Once you mature in your faith you will come to trust what the bible says and put away your errant views.

 

[Silverhair]

Youre typical evangelical, gommed up sozo to be synonymous with the heavenly birth. Even the Reformed Calvinists have done the same, all the while proclaiming ‘regeneration before faith’. It’s strange to me that you all can be so shallow and hasty with your soteriolgy that you don’t see this in the scriptures.

Now I know you were trying to say something but what it is does not come through. Try again.

 

[AustinC]

That is what he bible says but you have to go beyond the bible and fail to see the scriptures that has God require us to have faith before He saves us. I have no problem with all of the bible, you should try that sometime. Once you mature in your faith you will come to trust what the bible says and put away your errant views.

Wait,what!? Silverhair, you sound like a gnostic.
Notice your legalism. You state that "God require us to have faith before He saves us." You create a law that must be fulfilled before God can save. Silverhair, that is not grace. That is not what the Bible says.

You do indeed have a problem with all of the Bible. You declare that you have to go beyond the Bible if one is going to see. Silverhair, such a view is gnostic and contrary to the church, established by Jesus and continued by the Apostles. You have gone astray and simply put...no true believer in Christ Jesus should ever listen to you.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Wait,what!? Silverhair, you sound like a gnostic.
Notice your legalism. You state that "God require us to have faith before He saves us." You create a law that must be fulfilled before God can save. Silverhair, that is not grace. That is not what the Bible says.

You do indeed have a problem with all of the Bible. You declare that you have to go beyond the Bible if one is going to see. Silverhair, such a view is gnostic and contrary to the church, established by Jesus and continued by the Apostles. You have gone astray and simply put...no true believer in Christ Jesus should ever listen to you.

Every requirement was fully met by Christ. Nothing needs added or taken away from this truth. But others....

 

[Silverhair]

Wait,what!? Silverhair, you sound like a gnostic.
Notice your legalism. You state that "God require us to have faith before He saves us." You create a law that must be fulfilled before God can save. Silverhair, that is not grace. That is not what the Bible says.

You do indeed have a problem with all of the Bible. You declare that you have to go beyond the Bible if one is going to see. Silverhair, such a view is gnostic and contrary to the church, established by Jesus and continued by the Apostles. You have gone astray and simply put...no true believer in Christ Jesus should ever listen to you.

Austin you can throw all the pejoratives you like but the truth of the bible will counter them all. Your view of scripture wrecks the character of God. You want Him to only act the way your theology allows and you say I am a gnostic. Get real. My theology comes from the bible not Augustine, Calvin or perhaps you follow Piper, who ever it is it are not trusting the bible.

Dealing with you is like dealing with a child. Your lack of ability to read is just amazing. I tell you that you are the one going beyond the bible and you accuse me of doing that . Quite frankly you are as lost as a ball in tall grass.

You are the one that is holding to gnostic views. Just do a bit of research. Where did Augustine get his ideas. They sure were not from the text of scripture. He started out fine then ran to the far end of the logic pool when he fought Pelagius. What you hold to were the gnostic teachings that Augustine held for a number of years and which he brought into his writings that Calvin held so dear. So really I do not have to say your a gnostic, your own views do that.

 

[AustinC]

I stay with scripture alone. There is no means by which scripture wrecks the character of God.
There is no need to look at Augustine, Pelagius, Arminius, Calvin, Luther or the Pope. We can look at scripture and see that God is Supreme and Sovereign from cover to cover in the Bible.

My disagreement is with those who reject salvation by grace alone and instead add requirements (laws) that must be fulfilled before God can graciously save.

We are either saved by grace alone or we are saved by legal fulfillment of required laws. I believe the Bible teaches we are saved by grace alone.

 

[Silverhair]

I stay with scripture alone. There is no means by which scripture wrecks the character of God.
There is no need to look at Augustine, Pelagius, Arminius, Calvin, Luther or the Pope. We can look at scripture and see that God is Supreme and Sovereign from cover to cover in the Bible.

My disagreement is with those who reject salvation by grace alone and instead add requirements (laws) that must be fulfilled before God can graciously save.

We are either saved by grace alone or we are saved by legal fulfillment of required laws. I believe the Bible teaches we are saved by grace alone.

When you learn to read and trust scripture alone then you will find the truth. Your Calvinist logic is your downfall. You have to twist scripture so that you hope it works for you. Perhaps God has some reason to keep you trusting in an errant view for now so that when you discover the truth that is in scripture you will be a guide for others that have been misled.

 

[AustinC]

When you learn to read and trust scripture alone then you will find the truth. Your Calvinist logic is your downfall. You have to twist scripture so that you hope it works for you. Perhaps God has some reason to keep you trusting in an errant view for now so that when you discover the truth that is in scripture you will be a guide for others that have been misled.

Silverhair wrote:
"That is what he bible says but you have to go beyond the bible and fail to see the scriptures that has God require us to have faith before He saves us."

Sir, your own words condemn you and show you do not hold to scripture alone. This is my last comment to you on this thread. Good evening.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Article Four:

That this grace of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of all good, even to this extent, that the regenerate man himself, without prevenient or assisting, awaking, following and co-operative grace, can neither think, will, nor do good, nor withstand any temptations to evil; so that all good deeds or movements, that can be conceived, must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ.

I have bolded the synergism. Prevenient assistance and cooperation is synergism. Such a view requires a man, who has missed the mark, to cooperate with God in another attempt to hit the mark. It argues that God cannot hit the mark without human cooperation.

That seems to completely misunderstand the quoted sentence. But let's see if that is so.

First Question: What is meant by " the regenerate man himself"?

 

[DaveXR650]

First Question: What is meant by " the regenerate man himself"?[/QUOTE]

I think in Article Four the regenerate man is one who the Holy Spirit has awakened or convicted. The Arminian believes that men on their own cannot come to Christ. But they think of the work of the Holy Spirit as more of an enlightening or urging or a helping hand rather that bang, you are now regenerated and right with God. And as it states in the Article one reason they say this is because they observe that men do seem to resist God's grace.

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair wrote:
"That is what he bible says but you have to go beyond the bible and fail to see the scriptures that has God require us to have faith before He saves us."

Sir, your own words condemn you and show you do not hold to scripture alone. This is my last comment to you on this thread. Good evening.

As I have said before you live to twist peoples words .

My post # 60
When will you learn, trust the bible not your failed theology. God has set the conditions you just want to change those to follow that man made view. I keep hoping that the light will come on for you.

My post # 61
That is what he bible says but you have to go beyond the bible and fail to see the scriptures that has God require us to have faith before He saves us. I have no problem with all of the bible, you should try that sometime. Once you mature in your faith you will come to trust what the bible says and put away your errant views.

Everyone on here can see that you are less than forthright. You claim to be a Christian but you actions would call that into question. Anyone can see from these posts that I was saying that You Austin have to go beyond scripture to support your failed view. It is so sad that you have to avoid the text of scripture so you can hold to your twisted view.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

First Question: What is meant by " the regenerate man himself"?

I think in Article Four the regenerate man is one who the Holy Spirit has awakened or convicted. The Arminian believes that men on their own cannot come to Christ. But they think of the work of the Holy Spirit as more of an enlightening or urging or a helping hand rather that bang, you are now regenerated and right with God. And as it states in the Article one reason they say this is because they observe that men do seem to resist God's grace.

Hmmm. That doesn't seem to jive with the articles; however, something more definitive would be preferable.

Since there seems to be no definitive Arminian definition available yet, perhaps a definitive Calvinistic definition will help for comparative purposes.

​

 

[DaveXR650]

Well that's the problem isn't it. There is no definitive definition in either system. Article 3 has a man being born again by the Spirit. Then he can repent and believe. The Calvinist says the regenerate man is the believer and repenter and was so before he started repenting and believing. You will start a mud fight on here when you ask Calvinists, with all their precise theology to define such a term. Just watch.

 

[AustinC]

As I have said before you live to twist peoples words .

My post # 60
When will you learn, trust the bible not your failed theology. God has set the conditions you just want to change those to follow that man made view. I keep hoping that the light will come on for you.

My post # 61
That is what he bible says but you have to go beyond the bible and fail to see the scriptures that has God require us to have faith before He saves us. I have no problem with all of the bible, you should try that sometime. Once you mature in your faith you will come to trust what the bible says and put away your errant views.

Everyone on here can see that you are less than forthright. You claim to be a Christian but you actions would call that into question. Anyone can see from these posts that I was saying that You Austin have to go beyond scripture to support your failed view. It is so sad that you have to avoid the text of scripture so you can hold to your twisted view.

You continually claim I go beyond scripture, yet you can produce zero quotes from me where I go beyond scripture. Everyone can see this false statement coming from your typing. Yet, you keep spewing something that has zero evidence or support. Must I requote all the scripture passages, in their context, once again, just so you can be exposed...yet again?!

 

[Silverhair]

You continually claim I go beyond scripture, yet you can produce zero quotes from me where I go beyond scripture. Everyone can see this false statement coming from your typing. Yet, you keep spewing something that has zero evidence or support. Must I requote all the scripture passages, in their context, once again, just so you can be exposed...yet again?!

Austin you can keep trying to deflect from the truth but your whole theology is based upon a man made idea. You do not need to quote someones extra biblical words to show that you hold to them. Did I say you quote them, no but you sure do live by them don't you. But then again why would I expect a logical response from you on this matter.
I have pointed out the errors in your thinking but you just avoid them and just throw out red herrings as a way to deflect from the problems you face.

Must I quote all the scriptures again in the hope that you will see the errors in your thinking?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Well that's the problem isn't it. There is no definitive definition in either system. Article 3 has a man being born again by the Spirit. Then he can repent and believe. The Calvinist says the regenerate man is the believer and repenter and was so before he started repenting and believing. You will start a mud fight on here when you ask Calvinists, with all their precise theology to define such a term. Just watch.

That sounds more like it. But without defining what is meant by certain terms, there can be no resolution.

The Calvinist position needs the person to be dead for argument's sake, but those articles do not provide that. A regenerate man isn't dead in the sense they need. How utterly frustrating. Now, let the talking past continue.

 

[AustinC]

Austin you can keep trying to deflect from the truth but your whole theology is based upon a man made idea. You do not need to quote someones extra biblical words to show that you hold to them. Did I say you quote them, no but you sure do live by them don't you. But then again why would I expect a logical response from you on this matter.
I have pointed out the errors in your thinking but you just avoid them and just throw out red herrings as a way to deflect from the problems you face.

Must I quote all the scriptures again in the hope that you will see the errors in your thinking?

I bolded the continued false assertion you make with literally zero factual evidence on your part. The only possibility of you being correct is if you deny that all the writers in the Bible wrote by inspiration of God. Do you deny the Bible's inspiration by God?

Yes, Silverhair, quote all the scripture that teaches that humans exercise innate saving faith from their own will. Quote the entire bible passage that teaches the whole of scripture. So far, you have always picked one verse and sometimes half a sentence as your prooftext for your man-centered interpretation of salvation. So provide the full context of God's Word for us. I truly want to see how you go from Genesis to Revelation, showing human faith expressed before God chooses to work upon that person's heart. Go for it, Silverhair. This will be fun.

 

[DaveXR650]

That sounds more like it. But without defining what is meant by certain terms, there can be no resolution.

The Calvinist position needs the person to be dead for argument's sake, but those articles do not provide that. A regenerate man isn't dead in the sense they need. How utterly frustrating. Now, let the talking past continue.

I'm not sure what the Arminians consider "regenerate". They talk of being born again but I don't want to speak for them. Charles Wesley said "Long my imprisoned spirit lay fast bound in sin and nature's night. Thine eye diffused a quickening ray, I woke the dungeon flamed with light". It sounds to me like he believed the situation was beyond a self help program at least.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I'm not sure what the Arminians consider "regenerate". They talk of being born again but I don't want to speak for them. Charles Wesley said "Long my imprisoned spirit lay fast bound in sin and nature's night. Thine eye diffused a quickening ray, I woke the dungeon flamed with light". It sounds to me like he believed the situation was beyond a self help program at least.

Article 3 also very much makes it sound like it would be someone born again.

It is right for us to be wary of speaking for others, or for accepting such. The temptation to cherry-pick or create a straw man is powerful. Few can resist.

 

[AustinC]

That sounds more like it. But without defining what is meant by certain terms, there can be no resolution.

The Calvinist position needs the person to be dead for argument's sake, but those articles do not provide that. A regenerate man isn't dead in the sense they need. How utterly frustrating. Now, let the talking past continue.

Was this written by a Calvinist?

"Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else. But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus. God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."


(Ephesians 2:1-9)