Mary always a virgin?

The latter two are rather necessary, overwhelmingly supported, with no evidence to the contrary, whereas the first is not the least bit necessary nor supportable and leads to problematic practices, not the least of which is focusing on Mary rather than Christ.

 

Right.
Actually just the one verse Matthew 1:25 is enough for the normal, born-again Believers to believe that Mary's celibacy ended after Jesus was born and she returned to the normal life as a wife of Joseph, as the marriage is holy and blessed by God. God never snatched his wife from Joseph for lifetime.
But the hard-headed unbelievers wouldn't believe the simple truth but hold on the pagan goddess tale decorated with the name of Maria until they are completely condemned and punished at the Judgment Seat.
Let's leave them to believe what they want to

Rev 22:
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Fabricating Mary as the Perpetual Virgin is nothing but the part of Exalting Her as the Mother of God, the Goddess Mary whom billions of Catholics pray to as if Mary is everywhere in the world understanding all the languages of the world, memorizing all the prayers from the people to deliver to God.
Such pagan believers are strong and hardheaded and will be so, until they are completely destroyed by the Lord Jesus.

Eliyahu

 

Got to be one of the dumbest ideas out there. Right next to preterism and the gap theory

 

Mat 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Mat 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.


JAMES AND JOSES WERE THE SONS OF MARY!!

If you claim that the brothers mentioned here were the cousins or uncles, then what did the Jews call the Real Brothers? Did Jews call the Real Brothers the cousins or grandfathers?
You are trying to make the whole language the Chaos as you try to vindicate the pagan doctrines and dogmas of RCC.

Indeed the Scripture called the relationship of the uncle and nephew as Brethren
Genesis 13
8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

Does this mean that Abraham called Lot as Brother?
He was talking about their close relationship against the outsiders, other tribes
Hebrew text:
וַיֹּאמֶר אַבְרָם אֶל־לוֹט אַל־נָא תְהִי מְרִיבָה בֵּינִי וּבֵינֶיךָ וּבֵין רֹעַי וּבֵין רֹעֶיךָ כִּֽי־אֲנָשִׁים אַחִים אֲנָֽחְנוּ׃
כִּֽי־אֲנָשִׁים אַחִים אֲנָֽחְנוּ׃
Literal translation:
Because we are the human beings of the brothers.
He was talking about the close relationship between two by calling the Uncle and Nephew relationship as the Brothers.
If you believe the Jews were calling the cousins as the brothers of Jesus in Mt 13:55,
you don't recognize that the Jews were specifically pointing out Jesus is one of the average human beings who has the mother and the brothers, without the difference from any other human beings

Specifically, Mt 27:56 says Mary the Mother of James and Joses, which means Mary had sons like James and Joses. James and Joses had the mother named Mary, and James and Joses were the Brothers of Jesus, and Jesus had the Mother named Mary
This means that Jesus, James, Joses had the same mother, named Mary.
Jesus, James, Joses were the brothers having the same mother!
Can you not understand this simple relationship?
Are you determined to be foolish?

If you believe that Mary could still be the virgin even though she gave birth to James and Joses, no one can improve your stubbornness.


Eliyahu

 

For the future reference by everyone here, I want to add one more verse supporting that Mary had her own children:

Galatians 1

19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

If we add this verse to the previous summary, we can confirm once again that Jesus had the brothers and sisters thru Mary, even though Mary was just a surrogate mother for Jesus Christ.

So, we get the combined conclusion:

Mat 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Mat 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.


JAMES AND JOSES WERE THE SONS OF MARY!! and Brothers to Jesus!!


Galatians 1:19 confirm that Paul knew and believed Jesus had a brother named James( Yakobo)

Specifically, Mt 27:56 says Mary the Mother of James and Joses, which means Mary had sons like James and Joses. James and Joses had the mother named Mary, and James and Joses were the Brothers of Jesus, and Jesus had the Mother named Mary
This means that Jesus, James, Joses had the same mother, named Mary.
Jesus, James, Joses were the brothers having the same mother!

Again in summary,

1) Jesus had a mother named Mary ( Mt 13:55)

2) Jesus had the brothers named James and Joses ( Mt 13:55)

3) Mary is mentioned as the Mother of James and Joses (Mt 27:56)

4) James and Joses were the sons of Mary ( Mt 27:56)

5) James is the Brother of Jesus ( Gal 1:19)

6) Mary had the sons named James and Joses ( Mt 27:56)

7) Jesus, James, Joses had the same Mother named Mary ( Summary of Above)

8) Jesus, James, Joses were the sons of Mary

Is there any more argument to object to this?
Is Mary still the Virgin after giving birth to several children?

Eliyahu

 

yes my thought us one has nothing to do with the other her question was based on past activity and has no bearing in what would happen in the future

 

I believe the reason rc's fight so hard for Mary's 'perpetual virginity', without Biblical proof (quite the opposite), is that without the 'perpetual virginity of Mary' the other false teachings/dogmas of the RC denomination's version of Mary (Immaculate Conception, Co-Medatrix with Christ, Assumption of Mary, etc.) would also tumble. Then the rc denomination faithful would start to question other false teachings/doctrines/dogmas of the RC denomination.

 

I don't know just how God did it; I just know what Scripture says-that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. I'd say He simply WILLED IT TCCUR, & that was THAT. But Mary certainly had at least 6 more children after Jesus, which were produced in the usual way. I agree with what Mikoo posted above in #88.

I snicker at the excuses some RCs invent to try Mary remained a virgin. However, there's not one quark of Scripture saying or suggesting in any way that she did.

 

He would have received the fallen humanity of his biological father!

 

Probably due to them needing to see Mary stayingchaste and sinless per their system!

 

They don't; they encourage most couples to breed like lemmings, hoping to gain more RCs outta their broods. And their insistence on celibacy for their clergy is against Scripture.(1 Tim. 4:3)

Mikoo summed up the reasons they insist Mary never had any sexual relations in Post # 88 above.

 

Protestants hate the fact that they cannot exegetically be disproved the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin St. Mary.

A Baptist leaning he cannot exegetical disprove the perpetual Virginity of Blessed Virgin St. Mary.



The Formula of Concord: Solid Declaration / VIII. The Person of Christ

24 On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.

VIII. The Person of Christ | Book of Concord

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Dr. Martin Luther Isaiah 7:14 (LWV16): She shalt conceive. In Hebrew it is “has conceived,” and that is the indication of a miracle; it is as if the prophet were already seeing it. Again, since he says that it is God’s sign, it is necessary that that conception and birth be in a different manner than is commonly and naturally the case, for it would not be a sign if one who today is a virgin would become pregnant after a half year. Therefore she has to be both a virgin and with child. Matthew 1:21 f. clearly explains this.

Immanuel. This describes what kind of person it will be. This is not a proper name. He is indeed the Son of a virgin, and yet He is “God with us,” therefore God and man.

If the Blessed Virgin St. Mary had other children (St. Joseph was dead) then why was she entrusted to Apostle John at his Crucifixion if she had other natural sons to care for her (Jn 19:26–27)? ‍♂️

Mark 6:3 brother … his sisters: Jesus’ cousins or more distant relatives. They are not siblings from the same Virgin Mother.

1. These brethren are never called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (Jn 2:1; 19:25; Acts 1:14).

2. Two names mentioned, James and Joseph, are sons of a different “Mary” in Mt 27:56 (Mk 15:40).

3. It is unlikely that Jesus would entrust his Mother to the Apostle John at his Crucifixion if she had other natural sons to care for her (Jn 19:26–27).

4. The word “brethren” (Gk. adelphoi) has a broader meaning than blood brothers. Since ancient Hebrew had no word for “cousin”, it was customary to use “brethren” in the Bible for relationships other than blood brothers. In the Greek OT, a “brother” can be a nearly related cousin (1 Chron 23:21–22), a more remote kinsman (Deut 23:7; 2 Kings 10:13–14), an uncle or a nephew (Gen 13:8), or the relation between men bound by covenant (2 Sam 1:26; cf. 1 Sam 18:3). Continuing this OT tradition, the NT often uses “brother” or “brethren” in this wider sense. Paul uses it as a synonym for his Israelite kinsmen in Rom 9:3. It also denotes biologically unrelated Christians in the New Covenant family of God (Rom 8:29; 12:1; Col 1:2; Heb 2:11; Jas 1:2).

Sadly, most Protestants are unwilling to concede, at the very least, the exegetical probability of the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin St. Mary. Those who assume that Jesus had natural brothers pride themselves on their more delicate “exegetical conscience” and disparage those who hold the opposite view. They certainly cannot prove their view from Scripture or the church fathers.

As a confessional Lutheran, I'm just going to side with what the universal church has always taught: Mary remained a virgin, Paul remained in the faith, and Jesus remained single. I'll leave the new and sexy innovations to the theological liberals and radical Protestants.

May God bless your Advent season. Have a Marry Christmas.

 

John, James, the many variations of "Judah"(Judas, Jude), Joseph, & Mary(Miriam, etc.) were common Jewish names in those days. But Scripture specifically names the earthly brothers of Jesus that His earthly mom Mary bore. No getting around that one!

 

Matt. 13:55Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas?
This is a quote from Jesus' neighbors who were familiar with His earthly family. There's no hint that these 4 who were named had any other mom but Mary.

 

[QUOTE="VDMA, post: 2756046, member: 20635"
3. It is unlikely that Jesus would entrust his Mother to the Apostle John at his Crucifixion if she had other natural sons to care for her (Jn 19:26–27…….[/QUOTE]


Jesus knew all of May’s children with Joseph would die before her and chose John, whom He knew would live into old age, to care for her.

peace to you

 

Two verses making the point that Mary was sexually active with Joseph after Jesus was born.

Matthew 1:25
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

Luke 2:7
She gave birth to her first child, a son. She wrapped him snugly in strips of cloth and laid him in a manger, because there was no lodging available for them.

Both verses imply that Mary had sex with Joseph and gave birth to more children. This is furthermore confirmed by the naming of her other children.

Mark 6:3
Then they scoffed, “He’s just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us.” They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him.

You can also go to these verses:
Matthew 13:55, John 7:3, Acts 1:13, 1 Corinthians 9:5

Ultimately, a person must ignore the Bible to believe and teach Mary as a perpetual virgin. The Bible teaches that Mary was sexually active with Joseph.

 

Matt. 28:29 – I am with you “until the end of the world.” This does not mean Jesus is not with us after the end of the world.

2 Sam. 6:23 – Saul’s daughter Micah was childless “up to the point” [until] her death. She was not with child after her death.

First born doesn’t imply a second born, it is a term used today among Jews as ceremonial title. You can be called first born even if you are an only child.

James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon are the sons of the other Mary, but are still relatives.