Featured Not an either or atonement.

How can you possibly believe Rom 4:5 when you condition salvation on what a man does ? That concept contradicts Rom 4:5 !

 

And how is that relevant?

 

You say you believe in Rom 4:5 when your philosophy contradicts it.

 

But how is that relevant to what you, or I said, or redemption. Redemption is not dependent on that.

 

I agree.

All of God's elect believe 1 Corinthians 15:1-7, that Christ died for their sins in a personal way.
Whether or not He died for them or for everyone, was not even on the horizon when I first believed on Christ, for example.

The fact that He died, and that He died and rose again for me, is all I saw and was all that mattered to me as a very young believer.

 

Exactly.
It's personal.

Again, whether or not He did that for everyone else doesn't matter to the person who hears the Gospel and believes it...
Only that He died for them;
At least that is all that I cared about at the time.

Wasn't that how it happened for you?

For one to believe that Christ paid for their sins, in no way depends upon what they will later learn...
Whether or not He did it for everyone, or that He gave Himself for His sheep alone, and makes intercession for them at the right hand of the Father.

For example,
What I later learned through much study and understanding of His word, was that He neither gave Himself for the "goats", neither does He care for them...
They are not His sheep.

They are cursed...the kingdom was not prepared for them from the foundation of the world ( Matthew 25:31-46 ), neither is there any place for them in the kingdom of God ( Revelation 21:7-8 ).

To illustrate this,
I look at John 17 ( and many other things He had to say in many places, including what He had His apostles write to the churches ), and the fact that He did not pray for the world, but for those whom God the Father had given to Him out of the world ( Isaiah 8:18, Hebrews 2:13, John 17:2 ).
As Ephesians 2:10 says, only believers ( those who believe from the heart and confess with the mouth, Romans 10:8-10 ) are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.

That is why He will tell those He never knew,
that He never knew them ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

His attention and purpose were never towards those who would never believe, as they were not and are not His sheep that He came to seek and to save.

 

No it doesn't. That is ridiculous, especially with the passages you use to defend it.

 

Why not I have read your public posts, its not like Im guessing.

 

It doesn't make me feel better, that has nothing to do with it. You have yet to show one text that shows a general redemption without you projecting onto the text.

 

I agree that in many so-called churches today, that is what is preached and believed...
But that isn't what I believed when I first heard the word of God in 1978.

Back then I knew I was a sinner, and I believed on Christ for the forgiveness of my sins during the preaching of His word.
All I cared about at the time was that He died for me.

I knew nothing past that, although the Independent Baptist church I grew up in did indeed teach a "general redemption" and I came to believe it for a time.
I stopped believing that several years ago when I gradually came to understand, through my ongoing studies in the Scriptures, what was accomplished on the cross and for whom it was accomplished.

I'm sorry, but I find that I must disagree...
and state that no it does not, but to many it does appear to.

That said, I can see that we are in profound disagreement on this subject and that it will, in all probability, never change.


I wish you well, sir,
and may the Lord bless you in many ways.

 

So Jesus paid for the sins of the one doomed to destruction as was already written? Good luck arguing that one.

 

Jesus was not telling Judas in Luke 22 he was shedding his blood for him. Read it again.