Featured Penal Substitution Theory

That isn’t what he posted.

 

No, none of us have denied propitiation.

 

Again, this isn’t correct.

The teaching of both Ransom (1 Timothy 2:6) and the Victorious Christ (Rev. 15:12) are both not only present in Scripture, but more abundantly and in principle taught even in this day by both Calvinist and others.

It is not a drifting into apostasy, but the presentation is that of illuminating the teaching of Scripture.

Unlike the PSA, in which a quid pro quo is as a bargaining between God and the Devil with Christ a pawn pleading but submissive as a beaten puppy because God can’t stand the very thing He proclaimed, and pictured, the Christ presented in Scripture is the conqueror, the King of kings, the Kingdom builder in which the gates of hell are cast by His authority into the second death.

Prove your charge that the Victorious Christ is not supported and more thoroughly the teaching of scripture in comparison to PSA.

It is not apostasy but presentation of the Christ for who He is, the mission of His ministry, and the Savior of all snake bitten sinners that gaze upon Him.

 

Again untrue.

The propitiation (appeasement) of God was not because God punished the Son, but because the Scriptures state, “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 4) and that the death of the testator must occur before the will is valid to the heirs (Hebrews 9).

Look upon the record of what John saw and recorded in the Revelation concerning the crucifixion.

1Then I saw a scroll in the right hand of the One seated on the throne. It had writing on both sides and was sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or look inside it. 4And I began to weep bitterly, because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or look inside it. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed to open the scroll and its seven seals.” 6Then I saw a Lamb who appeared to have been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the scroll from the right hand of the One seated on the throne. 8When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song:​

Why is this passage so important? It shows the RESULTS that Hebrews 4, 9 and other passages declare.

The Scroll is a seven seal last will and testimony given to the Saints. Seven seals had to be broken to open to reveal the contents of heirship of the believers. No other document of the Middle East was sealed with the seven seals then the will presented to heirs. Only Christ as both just and justifier had such authority, and the reaction of the heavens was astounding.

PSA does not present anything close to the presentation of the Victorious Christ.

 

What does Romans 8 declare?

1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
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This is not supporting PSA but supportive of the Victorious Christ!

Because of God sending the Son, as an offering for sin, Christ condemned sin, so that the righteousness is fulfilled in us.

No mention in the slightest of the brutalizing by the Father upon the Son so prominent in the PSA view.

Who brutalized our Lord? Who put Him upon the cross? Humankind, me!

Do not take my own shame as a contributor to His suffering for me. He suffered not by the hand of God, but my own hand, and the debt I owe Him is far more then appreciation, but His love for me compels me, constrains me, and comforts me.

 

It’s certainly is the issue, for you proclaimed a drifting was taking place into apostasy.

I am showing a far more perfect view of the atonement then that presented by PSA

 

What I hold is that God did not pour out His wrath upon the Son.

The bowls of God’s wrath are yet to be poured out.

Had God poured His wrath out upon the Son, the bowls would be emptied. They are not (Revelation 15)

 

Was Christ the pure sacrifice or did sin present a defect in Him?



Concerning our Lord quoting Zachariah:

7Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
against the man who is My Companion,
declares the LORD of Hosts.​

Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered,
and I will turn My hand against the little ones.
8And in all the land, declares the LORD,
two-thirds will be cut off and perish,
but a third will be left in it.​

9This third I will bring through the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on My name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”
​

You do know God is stating that when the shepherd is struck the scattering commenced.



It does NOT say that God struck the shepherd.

 

The Victorious Christ preaches the cross, in all its shame upon those that perish and all the glory to those who believe.

What is not preached is that God so loved the world that He brutalized is only begotten son that some appeasement between obstinate rebellious humanity and His holiness may be credited to some who conjure up enough innate faith to get His attention.