Belief not a gift

[Reformed1689]

Can you understand the English language??

Read again Calvin on John 3.16, where he very clearly says

EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION

Do you know what this means???

Yes and notice that is not talking at all about who he died for is it? No. You are trying to merge two things together.

 

[Reformed1689]

I did not say world means elect.
I said the elect exist worldwide.
I said the everyone believing are the elect.
The others love sin, not God.

He can't grasp that.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I did not say world means elect.
I said the elect exist worldwide.
I said the everyone believing are the elect.
The others love sin, not God.

Did you love God before you were saved?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes and notice that is not talking at all about who he died for is it? No. You are trying to merge two things together.

Complete NONSENSE

 

[SavedByGrace]

He can't grasp that.

I don't twist the Bible

 

[Reformed1689]

I don't twist the Bible

Of course you do

 

[Reformed1689]

Complete NONSENSE

You can claim that all you want, but Calvin is clear in his writings that he is referring to all people groups, Jew and Gentile, not all individuals, when talking about the atonement.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Of course you do

You mean like you do for John 3.16

 

[SavedByGrace]

You can claim that all you want, but Calvin is clear in his writings that he is referring to all people groups, Jew and Gentile, not all individuals, when talking about the atonement.

There you go with your twist

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

_________________________________________________________________________________

Here in v.4 works and belief are separated and clearly defines belief as not a work. Neither does it define belief as a gift.

Jesus himself said it is the work of God that one believes. In any case. Amen, it is not our work.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus himself said it is the work of God that one believes. In any case. Amen, it is not our work.

So why would God punish those who do not believe?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree that in Romans 4, why people believe is not addressed.
But in other parts of God's word, it is.

For example, Philippians 1 says that belief is a gift:

" Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
28 and in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
30 having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear [to be] in me."

In the above, Paul tells the Philippians ( in verse 29 ) that it is given to the believer both to believe, and to suffer for His sake.
So, anything that is given by God is a gift;

An example of this would be the ultimate gift, eternal life...
which is to know God and His Son ( John 17:3 ):

" For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." ( Romans 6:23 ).

I agree here, I guess what we have to determine is how it is a gift. Is it only given to some, and kept from others. Or is there another reason or purpose of this gift

 

[Iconoclast]

He can't grasp that.

Not yet..in
John 6 :66 says from that time many walked no more with him..
That shows. It was not only the 12.
In jn17...it includes those who.believe through the Apostles word, so more then the apostles were involved.

 

[Iconoclast]

Did you love God before you were saved?

No.
I used to curse at Christians and did not believe in God at all.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning

This thread will be closed no sooner than 1155 pm EST / 855 pm PST

 

[Reformed1689]

You mean like you do for John 3.16

I don't twist John 3:16. I just don't add to it something that is not there.

 

[Reformed1689]

There you go with your twist

That's not a twist, that is reality. Read just the excerpts you have posted in this thread and you know that is true. You just want so badly for Calvin to refute Calvinism but he doesn't. Your hatred of everything reformed theology blinds you and just makes you sound idiotic.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So why would God punish those who do not believe?

John 3: 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

here is your ...

I said it all in post 90. So you don't have to do any guessing about what I mean.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

The use of Kosmos here in 3:16, cannot mean the "elect", because we are told that the "whoever believes" OUR OF this WORLD, used here, will be saved. This means that there are SOME out of this ELECT WORLD,

There is no such thing as "elect world."