Featured Atonement Continued

Although I may agree in part with much of this presentation, it is wrong in this manner.

The trinity can NEVER be divided. The unity of the trinity cannot ever be undone, and in particular by something of human event oriented. If one part of the trinity is impacted the whole is. One cannot be sinful and the rest remain without sin. Neither can one part of the trinity punish the other part. Any suggestion that such things can occur are at best misguided and at worst deceitfully wicked.

Too often the narrow focus of the crucifixion does not take into consideration that what we can perceive is but the surface, and as an iceberg great conflicts of the spiritual world powers and authorities were in great battle. Paul states that, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

At no point did God abandon the Son. The Son underwent the crucifixion with the full trinity well aware.

Did not the Christ call out to God, saying, "MY God" How then is God far way and not there, for He did not stop with addressing God, but related the concern, "Why have you forsaken me." God did not abandon the Son, but withheld support so that the physical death may occur.

Btw, something for another thread. There are those who are well versed in Aramaic who have compared this to the language of the psalms and come up with something else. It might be an interesting discussion for another thread. Is it possible that just as in other places of dispute, someone added an interpretation that was not accurate to the Aramaic? Again for another thread. Might be interesting.

 

As I have said before you don't know what you are talking about

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Hebrews 9.16,17

 

The distinct Persons who are God, not parts, made the atonement to happen by way of the Son. He, the Son, did not cease to be God and His soul did die. Hebrews 1:3, ". . . upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, . . ." Of course His soul did not remain dead. We disagree over words.

 

No he doesn't.

 

This getting beyond the topic of the thread.

But I will mention that the death of the testator allowed for the covenant to be established, just as the first with the blood.

 

I think you are right.

The physical died but the eternal soul (life breath) did not. The Christ showed himself to all in paradise.

Christ met with the thief in Paradise as He said he would, while His body lay in the tomb, not decaying at all as normal bodies would.

Christ did not go to the place of torment. I have heard so very many teaching and preaching the PSA thinking that express that he descended into the torments of hell.

Not, true. No innocent ever went to that place.

 

There is a distinction that I need to make.

Christ died physically, but He never went to the place of torment but to paradise just as He said to meet the thief.

So, just as believers do when the physical body ceases to be viable, we change into His likeness.

 

Christ Jesus went to the cross of His own volition. He was the lamb of God that bled for the sins of the world. Christ Jesus did the same thing that the lambs slain in the OT did, He shed His blood to appease the anger of God in regard to sin. Can you not see this?

God is angry at the sin, Christ Jesus is the propitiation for those sins.

Some here see PSA in the text of the bible, I do not. What I do see is that God loves us so much that He was willing to shed His blood so that we could live.

Was Christ Jesus victorious over sin, death? Yes. Did He provide for the redemption of those that trust in Him? Yes. Did He meet the blood atonement demands of God? Yes.

According to Isa_53:10, God did crush [bruise] his servant. Verse 5 indicates that he "was crushed [bruised] for our iniquities." This emphasizes the emotional and spiritual suffering of the Savior as he became sin for us. TWOT #427

 

What does this mean?
"God reconciling mankind to Himself."

How did His death "reconcile" us?

[I am curious about what YOU mean when you use these terms ... it always comes down to the details - the meaning of the words.]

 

Jesus had our sins imputed to Him, as then the ftaher can freely impute His righteousness to us!

 

How did His death atone for our sins, as was not due just to Him physically put to death!

 

Jesus did indeed experience being forsaken in his humanity while upon that Cross, as he felt what a lost sinner will in hell apart from presense of God!

 

[on a break from sermon prep. Just time for a drive-by shooting]
Good question! 1 John 3:8, 'For this reason the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.' So any victory by our Lord Jesus Christ must involve the defeat of Satan. Satan is the 'accuser of our brethren, who accused them before God day and night....' (Revelation 12:10). Therefore, in order to destroy the works of the devil, our Lord must defeat those accusations, which apparently was done 'by the blood of the Lamb.'

That's all for now. Give it some thought.

 

Still does not give the basis to have sins forgiven though, as any could die "mere" physical death! What being forsaken by the Father mean?