Featured Atonement Continued

So how was the wrath of the father Propitiated again?

 

Psa was held and taught by Lord Jesus and the Apostles, so its you "reading own philosophy" into the Cross!

 

There are a number of issues. Again, on the premise your understanding is fully correct. It would not matter if in fact I understand there to be a penal substitution of some kind in Scripture. It would not be there no matter how convincing an argument I could put forth from Scripture. While there is much we agree on, I honestly do not understand yet your understanding. I do not even know what to ask you.

 

Seems that while we are using same terms, totally different vested meanings!

 

That is my take on this. But from the premise that @JonC view is correct that take would have to be false.
There are two questions that need to be asked though. Which I did not think of at the time I posted that I could not think of any questions to ask @JonC.
On the basis that @JonC understanding is correct, what is the benefit of believing that view? And on the premise that penal subsitution is an unBiblical view, what are the consequences in believing it?

 

Isa 53:5 the CHASTISEMENT of OUR peace was UPON HIM

 

That's it? I'll take it.

 

Please show this. The two side by side.

That happend after the atonment was completed, and after John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished . . . ." Luke 23:46, ". . . Jesus had cried with a loud voice, . . ." John 19:30, "It is finished." And in Luke 23:46, ". . . he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: . . ."

It is not obvous to me.

 

I would like to suggest that much of the discussion concerning the atonement, PSA, and so forth would become null if folks would take Hebrew 9 to heart and look at what it presents.

I mentioned on a post in one of these threads that the crucifixion was far more reaching then just what took place here on earth.

Hebrews 9 presents these facts:

First: 1Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary.

Second: 9It is an illustration for the present time, because the gifts and sacrifices being offered were unable to cleanse the conscience of the worshiper.

Third: 11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,

Fourth: He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by hands and is not a part of this creation.

Fifth: He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.

Sixth: 15Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Seventh: 21In the same way, he sprinkled with blood the tabernacle and all the vessels used in worship. 22According to the law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

Eighth: 23So it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Ninth: 24For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.

Tenth: But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Eleventh: 27Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Twelfth: 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.
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Too often folks focus so heavily upon the earthly cross as the finished work, when Hebrews points to it as the tool, the extremely sharp knife, that was used to blood let the sacrifice. That blood was then presented in heaven in the true tabernacle, not the copy found on earth. The copy on earth can be considered a forgery, a fake, that was useful for a short time, but the original, true,the archetype tabernacle was in heaven. There, in heaven, at the presence of God, is where the blood (the more perfect) was sprinkled.

There is not a single picture of PSA in this passage.

 

I have, and still find that the Psa gives the best explanation for how a Holy God can freely justify a lost sinner and still remain true to his nature and be Holy!

 

Once again, how is the Wrath of God towards sin and the lost sinner propitiated for and by then?

 

Your question is answered in Psalm 103.

 

Ezekiel 18:4, ". . . the soul that sinneth, it shall die. . . ."
Romans 6:23, ". . . For the wages of sin is death; . . ."

Isaiah 53:12, ". . . he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . ."
Romans 5:8, ". . . Christ died for us. . . ."
1 Corinthians 15:3, ". . . that Christ died for our sins . . . ."

This is what is called and defined as the penal substitution atonement.

 

the Father forsook Him when he paid the sin debt in full on our behalf!

 

But what is shown is not what is taught, for you do not show the divine wrath (judgement) that is the cornerstone of PSA.