Featured Biblical Atonement (Part 4....but who's counting)

I was exactly where you were first most of my life. I grew up in a Baptist church. I also saw Penal Substitution Theory all over Scripture (and I was unaware of other views...particularly that Christianity condemned aspects of the Theory as heresy before it was ever articulated).

I never even knew just how little a minority the Theory was among Christians (and that it had only existed in Western Christianity).

It goes back to the ink blot. If I tell you I'm going to show you a picture of a bat, show you an ink blot, you will probably always see a bat even after being told it's just an ink blot.

 

Are you implying that God is angry at sinful actions rather than the sinner who sinned (sin must be punished, but it can be transfered from the sinner and then be punished)????

 

But you rejected the passages I quoted and said they were not Pauline Justification. How do you really know that you understand Pauline Justification if you find it is different from the rest of the Bible's doctrine?

I don't care about NT Wright (I mean, I wish him well as a person but I don't know him). I do believe he exceeded Scripture with the NPP. I said before, as much as you bring up NT Wright you must have a man crush on the guy.

 

But you have not yet found even ONE passage that supports the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement. You just offer words and Calvin and Luther.

Dude, get back to Scripture!

 

I'm sorry you can't. Perhaps the first step you should take is moving closer to Scripture and accepting God's Word as complete, perfect, and the test of doctrine. If you do, you will move longer hold the Penal Substitution Theory.

Then you can struggle to understand Scripture.

 

Then you severely misunderstand my view. The NPP approaches the Cross as an event particularly for the time (in a secular sence) and forces it to place the Roman Empire against Israel.

I suspect you only know of NT Wright and the NPP second hand...much like you deal with Scripture here. That said, at least the man has enough sense to respect Scripture (something Penal Substitution Theorists neglect).

 

No. I accept Pauline Justification. It is the same Justification spoken of throughout the Bible.

I reject Penal Substitution Theory as pagan and humanistic philosophy. But I accept every word of Scripture.

You need to get back to the Bible. Forget Calvin, Luther, and Wright and pay attention to what is written in God's Word.

 

Except it is nowhere in the Bible. None of it is in the Bible.

The Bible nowhere says Christ experienced God's wrath.

Nowhere does it say Jesus died instead of us.

Nowhere does it even say Christ's death appeased God.

Nowhere does it say God punished Jesus.

Nowhere does it say God punished Jesus instead of punishing us.

Nowhere does it say our sins can be transferred to another person (it actually says the opposite).

Nowhere does it say God will substitute the innocent for the guilty (again, it says the opposite).

So how has something so foreign to the biblical text become so foundational to your faith?

It is because you are a Roman Catholic once removed.