1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Day TULIP Died

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, May 8, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 7 of 10
  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1 Peter 2::7-8
    So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
     
    #121 AustinC, May 9, 2022
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,916
    Likes Received:
    241
    How about post#102 then?
     
    #122 JesusFan, May 9, 2022
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep, that's another that people read via their presuppositions rather than allowing Scripture to stand on its own.

    Scripture says (Matthew 20:28): " just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”


    How is that read - "and to give His life a ransom for many” or "and to give His life in place of many”?
     
    #123 JonC, May 9, 2022
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The part in red looks like an addition to Scripture. What translation are you using?
     
    #124 JonC, May 9, 2022
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    World, universal, is fine. Whoever believes is limiting to those who are born again and thus believe. We find this truth in the context of the chapter.

    Jon, be honest and admit that your reading of books, outside of scripture, have influenced your thinking so you interpret scripture from the bias of others, not the exegesis of the passage.
     
    #125 AustinC, May 9, 2022
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,916
    Likes Received:
    241
    he seems though to not sees things as the bible describes how God sees and views this issue!
     
    #126 JesusFan, May 9, 2022
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, how so? You seem keen on making unfounded claims about other people but less apt to defend your claims.
     
    #127 JonC, May 9, 2022
  8. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,916
    Likes Received:
    241
    he is guilty of doing what he sees Calvinists as doing, reading our bias and :philosophy" into the scriptures!
     
    #128 JesusFan, May 9, 2022
  9. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They would only be false if they were not true. Your theology wants to restrict what God can do, therefore it is not a false claim.
     
    #129 Silverhair, May 9, 2022
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,916
    Likes Received:
    241
    Does the Bible state to us that all mankind deserve to be saved?
     
    #130 JesusFan, May 9, 2022
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well... that's a copout. I use ESV.
    Peter expresses the Sovereignty of God in choosing and keeping in chapter 1. In chapter 2 he harkens to Jesus comments in Luke 20 and provides these verses that reflect the Sovereignty of God in those who don't believe.
     
    #131 AustinC, May 9, 2022
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Reformers did not see that as an either/or choice.

    • God desires all men to be saved. (1 Timothy 2)
    • Men love darkness and do not come to the light. (John 3)
    • The Father draws to the Son those that will be saved. (John 6)
    • God foreknew those whom He would predestine, call justify and glorify. (Romans 8)
    Both are true:
    God desires all men to be saved AND only a pre-selected group will be saved. (Luke 13:34 and Romans 9:21-24)
     
    #132 atpollard, May 9, 2022
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not understand why you believe this.

    Why don't you admit that your theology is a result of studying Reformed theology over Scripture?

    I am always open to revisit my positions. BUT only via Scripture (what is written in God's Word). I do not put much stock in your books insofar as what you (or Sproul, Knox, Owen, etc ) believes is taught by Scripture.

    If you would-could read the Bible without adding to it I think that you may find it makes sense on its own, apart from the additions you make.
     
    #133 JonC, May 9, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Austin your philosophy comes through when you say "Whoever believes is limiting to those who are born again and thus believe." You want people saved before they even believe, but that is not what the bible says is it.
     
    #134 Silverhair, May 9, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Provide Scripture and we can discuss that. I do not care what your books say the Bible teaches. I care about what God has said (about "what is written").

    Stop relying on extra-biblical authors and let's discuss Scripture itself.
     
    #135 JonC, May 9, 2022
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How do you get "your theology wants to restrict what God can do"? That's nonsense. We claim that God has PUT HIS OWN RESTRICTIONS. Not on what he CAN do but what he DOES AND WILL do.
     
    #136 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And again you seem to equate born again with conversion. Regeneration and Conversion are not the same thing.
     
    #137 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does the Bible say ANYBODY deserves to be saved?
     
    #138 JonC, May 9, 2022
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In the same token, we don't really care what you say, which is what this thread is really about.
     
    #139 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Faith:
    Baptist
    WHOEVER BELIEVES.

    Nature of man or gift of God?
    Therein lies the heart of the issue.
     
    #140 atpollard, May 9, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
Page 7 of 10
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...