Conditional election.

[Silverhair]

All that is the fruit of election. When did one become one of Gods elect ? Was it not before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

We become one of God's elect when we are in the elect one. But you calvinists seem to think that all sinners are part of the elect as you think you are elect before you are forgiven. The bible differs from your failed theology.

Calvinists have ignored clear scripture. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. We hear the gospel, we believe the gospel then we are saved. It really is not that complicated if you will just trust scripture. Ephesians 1:13-14

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

These things happen in time which speaks volumes against your theology, you just refuse to see it.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is your calvinist theology talking. Trust the bible and it will clear up your error.

You may call it what you will, yet its the truth !

 

[Brightfame52]

silverhair

We become one of God's elect when we are in the elect one.

Thats true, which occurred before the foundation of the world.

 

[Silverhair]

Your statement doesnt make sense at all.

You thing the bible does not make any sense, no wonder you have such a flawed theology. It is just your arrogance that would allow you to say such a thing.

 

[Brightfame52]

silverhair

But you calvinists seem to think that all sinners are part of the elect as you think you are elect before you are forgiven.

I never heard of this. First of all, all sinners are not of Gods elect, only some are, a remnant of mankind.

Calvinists have ignored clear scripture. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek

I dont ignore it, in fact its about the elect, the Gospel comes to them only in the power of the Spirit converting them. 1 Thess 1:4-5
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Notice Paul is speaking to the elect !

We hear the gospel, we believe the gospel then we are saved. It really is not that complicated if you will just trust scripture. Ephesians 1:13-14

Again this is about the elect Eph 1:4 they hear it spiritually and believe, because they had been regenerated in order to hear it spiritually.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

All this refers to the regenerate elect which the Gospel comes to them in Power Rom 1:16

 

[Silverhair]

Amen, that's exactly correct ! If faith or believing is a product of the natural man, and not the gift of faith/believing wrought by the work of God the Spirit Jn 6:29, then its a work, its in fact law keeping Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You have just proven what I have said a number of times, calvinists do not understand context. You pull verses out of the bible that you think support your view when in fact they do not but you will ignore clear text that does not fit your failed theology. So the verse you quoted could be used for calvinists and would fit quite well if you add the following one. Mat 23:24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

 

[Brightfame52]

You thing the bible does not make any sense, no wonder you have such a flawed theology. It is just your arrogance that would allow you to say such a thing.

I think your statement doesnt make sense, the bible isnt typing your post !

 

[Brightfame52]

You have just proven what I have said a number of times, calvinists do not understand context. You pull verses out of the bible that you think support your view when in fact they do not but you will ignore clear text that does not fit your failed theology. So the verse you quoted could be used for calvinists and would fit quite well if you add the following one. Mat 23:24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

Im not here to prove anything to you, but to witness the truth, God must give you understanding.

Yet the natural man from creation in Adam is bound to the Law !

 

[37818]

So we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. But...we were elect at what time?

I honestly don't see how you make a distinction that God never makes so I need you to very clearly explain the timeline for election as you reject it taking place before the foundation of the world.

I do not understand why you are unable to hear we for ourselves realize being God's elect in the time of our understanding of our being saved. Ephesians 2:8, 2 Peter 1:5-10.

 

[Silverhair]

silverhair



I never heard of this. First of all, all sinners are not of Gods elect, only some are, a remnant of mankind.


I dont ignore it, in fact its about the elect, the Gospel comes to them only in the power of the Spirit converting them. 1 Thess 1:4-5
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Notice Paul is speaking to the elect !




Again this is about the elect Eph 1:4 they hear it spiritually and believe, because they had been regenerated in order to hear it spiritually.



All this refers to the regenerate elect which the Gospel comes to them in Power Rom 1:16

Did you forget this verse Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, I hope not.

So did God elect sinners or does He elect those that have trusted in His son. Context BF context, you have to remember context.

1Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Thessalonians' Faith and Example
1Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers,
1Th 1:3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
1Th 1:4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.
1Th 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.
1Th 1:6 And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit,
1Th 1:7 so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe.

BF the person has to hear the message before they can believe the message. Is that such a hard concept for you to grasp. You have to ignore or read into scripture in order to make it fit your theology.

 

[37818]

I cant say the same for your reply, again when did God choose His People in Christ ?

I cannot help what seems to be your unbelief.

Are people in Christ before the foundation of the world ?

No. Just in God's choosing.

 

[AustinC]

I do not understand why you are unable to hear we for ourselves realize being God's elect in the time of our understanding of our being saved. Ephesians 2:8, 2 Peter 1:5-10.

Wait! So you are merely making a distinction between God's election of us before the foundation of the world and our experience of election in our lifetime? Is that it? Are you equating election with humans and choosing with God? Are you saying that God chose you before the foundation of the world and you elected God at salvation?

Honestly, you are making no sense. I can only fathom that you are attempting to view this from a man-centered point of view.

 

[Silverhair]

Im not here to prove anything to you, but to witness the truth, God must give you understanding.

Yet the natural man from creation in Adam is bound to the Law !

Then your witness is false, you do not hold to clear scripture but rather twist it to fit your theology.
How you can ignore the text of the bible and say you are here to witness to the truth of the bible is laughable. You remind me of the Pharisees, you read the text and miss what it says because your looking for something else.

Remember context matters. You can not just pull words out of the bible willy-nilly and use them to support your view. By your method one could show there is no God. BF your method of proof texting just proves that you do not in fact trust scripture but rather trust yourself.

 

[37818]

I cant say the same for your reply, again when did God choose His People in Christ ? Are people in Christ before the foundation of the world ?

Your question is to the answer I had already given to the question. It would seem you are incapable of even hearing my point view. It makes it impossible so you could not even possibly explain why my view is wrong.

 

[37818]

So you are. merely making a distinction between God's election of us before the foundation of the world and our experience of election in our lifetime? Is that it?

No. I do not believe the election is done before the foundation of the world. Only God's choosing which precedes the election.

 

[37818]

Since chose and elect are synonyms, I point out that you are wrong.

No. This is a point we disagree on. Merely repeating what is not true does not make it so.

 

[Reformed1689]

You are reading into the text what you want to find rather than reading the text as it is.

No, I studied the Greek. The Bible wasn't written in English, surely you know that?

 

[Reformed1689]

No. I do not believe the election is done before the foundation of the world. Only God's choosing which precedes the election.

Ok, so what is election and what has God chosen in your view???

 

[Reformed1689]

Yes I agree context does matter. You should try reading things in context. Ephesians 1:1-14 for example. You might learn a few things.

oh brother

 

[Silverhair]

No, I studied the Greek. The Bible wasn't written in English, surely you know that?

The fact you studied the Greek should have helped you but it does not seem to have done so. When you continue to ignore context it just leads to you a misunderstanding of the text.