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The Doctrine of Election in a Nutshell

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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Notice that Van has no scripture for his assertion which is..."Scripture tells us we were chosen through faith in the truth."

Nowhere do we find the Bible saying God's children were chosen through faith. Van promotes an open fiction.
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Ephesians 2:8
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
 
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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
You mixing law and grace, or grace and works, cant do it friend.
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You really do not like the bible do you. You keep denying clear scripture. Your calvinist theology has fried your brain it would seem. How do you see grace and works in the Ephesians 2:8 statement "Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God," What are you missing there?
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
They were chosen before the foundation in Christ Eph 1:4, they believe in time. Thats election before they believe Duh
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Read the bible not your calvinist propaganda. We are chosen "in Him". Calvinist seem to miss those words. Read Ephesians 1:1-6 without your calvinism.
 
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JD731

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Ephesians 2:8
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
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For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God.

It continues to the present time of all gentiles. In Ephesians because of the theme and the explanation of the inclusion of gentiles in the body at a later time than Jews, he contrasts the principles between Jew and gentile in the beginning of the church age. The principle under which Jews were first in the church was by promise. That is the reason you have verses that makes the distinction between Jew and gentiles, like these following.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Paul was definitely a saved man here but he did not say, by grace are we saved. This is an important point. Gentiles have been added without any promises from God to be included. Therefore their inclusion was by the principle of grace. Interestingly, when the Jews were dispersed in AD 70 when they returned to the law after being enlightened, they were considered by God as gentiles as well, being under the governments of gentiles in the lands where they were driven. Any Jews who are saved since then are saved by grace and the character of the church is gentile. God is forming a gentile bride for Christ. This truth is typified in the OT by gentile women marrying Jewish men.

The apostolic era, 30 AD, to 70 AD, was the laying of the foundation of the church upon the apostles of Christ. Except for the 5 books written by John, the last epistle written was Jude in AD 69.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
JD731 said:
I know you don't and I fear you are so buried in Calvinism and their false doctrines that the light can't get through. However I will post a prayer of the apostle Paul from Eph 1 that is for all in the church, the body of Christ. Paul knows what he is doing in his letters to the churches. He is explaining the mysteries of God and giving hope to the gentiles. He knows two things must be present to have his prayer answered. One, this is a revelation from God and so one must have the Spirit to understand the words. Two, One must believe the words of this explanation.

A word of caution here. God says for us to speak the same things and there is great danger in quoting words that he has not given like some on this thread are doing. Paul knows that the light that he is praying for us to receive rides in on Spirit chosen words.

Ps 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Light means understanding.


Following is the petition of God for this epistle.

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world (<165> aion = age), but also in that (<165>) which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
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Please post with purpose to me, so I can try to understand your point, just giving a barrage of scripture with no point, its not good friend
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
You really do not like the bible do you. You keep denying clear scripture. Your calvinist theology has fried your brain it would seem. How do you see grace and works in the Ephesians 2:8 statement "Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God," What are you missing there?
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I know you mix law and works with grace, that dont work in biblical Christianity friend.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Read the bible not your calvinist propaganda. We are chosen "in Him". Calvinist seem to miss those words. Read Ephesians 1:1-6 without your calvinism.
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You mean you dont see that the elect were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
JD731 said:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God.
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Paul was definitely a saved man here but he did not say, by grace are we saved. This is an important point.
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*Ephesians 2:4-5*
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Please post with purpose to me, so I can try to understand your point, just giving a barrage of scripture with no point, its not good friend
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It is not me who is having trouble with the English language, the meaning of words, reasoning and logic. It is you. You see about two verses in the epistle to the Ephesians and that is all you see. Then you are not concerned with the context and application of those two verses.

If you graduated from the public school system you might want to ask for your money back.
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
*Ephesians 2:4-5*
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
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This is a very bad translation of the verses. These verses in the past tense will not help you because they cannot help you.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
JD731 said:
This is a very bad translation of the verses. These verses in the past tense will not help you because they cannot help you.
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LOL, the ESV is a good translation. You just cannot accept what God is telling you. You aren't the cause agent. God is the cause agent.

Try the NLT...
*Ephesians 2:4-5*
But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)

Face it, you were chosen by God before the foundation of the world and God caused you to believe.
 
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