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Featured The Doctrine of Election in a Nutshell

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JD731, Sep 2, 2022.

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  1. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 2:8
    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
     
    #121 Silverhair, Sep 10, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You really do not like the bible do you. You keep denying clear scripture. Your calvinist theology has fried your brain it would seem. How do you see grace and works in the Ephesians 2:8 statement "Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God," What are you missing there?
     
    #122 Silverhair, Sep 10, 2022
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Read the bible not your calvinist propaganda. We are chosen "in Him". Calvinist seem to miss those words. Read Ephesians 1:1-6 without your calvinism.
     
    #123 Silverhair, Sep 10, 2022
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Your denial of clear scripture. Altering of the text so that it fits your view.
     
    #124 Silverhair, Sep 10, 2022
  5. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God.

    It continues to the present time of all gentiles. In Ephesians because of the theme and the explanation of the inclusion of gentiles in the body at a later time than Jews, he contrasts the principles between Jew and gentile in the beginning of the church age. The principle under which Jews were first in the church was by promise. That is the reason you have verses that makes the distinction between Jew and gentiles, like these following.

    Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Paul was definitely a saved man here but he did not say, by grace are we saved. This is an important point. Gentiles have been added without any promises from God to be included. Therefore their inclusion was by the principle of grace. Interestingly, when the Jews were dispersed in AD 70 when they returned to the law after being enlightened, they were considered by God as gentiles as well, being under the governments of gentiles in the lands where they were driven. Any Jews who are saved since then are saved by grace and the character of the church is gentile. God is forming a gentile bride for Christ. This truth is typified in the OT by gentile women marrying Jewish men.

    The apostolic era, 30 AD, to 70 AD, was the laying of the foundation of the church upon the apostles of Christ. Except for the 5 books written by John, the last epistle written was Jude in AD 69.
     
    #125 JD731, Sep 10, 2022
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    What is to ponder? As per normal you grab random scripture that you hope supports your view rather than deal with clear text that shows you are wrong.
     
    #126 Silverhair, Sep 10, 2022
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure, I do know I have explained this matter to you, and I have seen others as well.
     
    #127 Brightfame52, Sep 10, 2022
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Please post with purpose to me, so I can try to understand your point, just giving a barrage of scripture with no point, its not good friend
     
    #128 Brightfame52, Sep 10, 2022
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I know you mix law and works with grace, that dont work in biblical Christianity friend.
     
    #129 Brightfame52, Sep 10, 2022
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You mean you dont see that the elect were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
     
    #130 Brightfame52, Sep 10, 2022
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Friend, please dont lie on me. I never said anything about knowing more than the Holy Spirit.
     
    #131 Brightfame52, Sep 10, 2022
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Ponder means:

    to weigh carefully in the mind; consider thoughtfully:
     
    #132 Brightfame52, Sep 10, 2022
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Where Scripture has been used, Scripture has been misinterpreted or even it's meaning denied.
     
    #133 37818, Sep 10, 2022
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    *Ephesians 2:4-5*
    But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
     
    #134 AustinC, Sep 10, 2022
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Besides that, I have a thread here on election.
     
    #135 Brightfame52, Sep 10, 2022
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So do I. Conditional election.
     
    #136 37818, Sep 10, 2022
  17. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    It is not me who is having trouble with the English language, the meaning of words, reasoning and logic. It is you. You see about two verses in the epistle to the Ephesians and that is all you see. Then you are not concerned with the context and application of those two verses.

    If you graduated from the public school system you might want to ask for your money back.
     
    #137 JD731, Sep 10, 2022
  18. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    This is a very bad translation of the verses. These verses in the past tense will not help you because they cannot help you.
     
    #138 JD731, Sep 10, 2022
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    LOL, the ESV is a good translation. You just cannot accept what God is telling you. You aren't the cause agent. God is the cause agent.

    Try the NLT...
    *Ephesians 2:4-5*
    But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)

    Face it, you were chosen by God before the foundation of the world and God caused you to believe.
     
    #139 AustinC, Sep 10, 2022
  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    This thread will be closed no sooner than Sun @ 6 am EDT / 3 am PDT
     
    #140 Salty, Sep 10, 2022
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