Featured Can You Come to Christ on Your Own

Again, prove your assertion, or admit you are wrong.
The Bible is clear. Your fight is against God, not me.

 

It was the Roman senator Cato the Elder who said it. After the end of the Second Punic War (Rome vs Carthage), he insisted that Rome would never be safe so long as Carthage existed and he ended every speech he gave with the words 'Delenda est Carthago,' Eventually, some time after his death, he was heeded, and Carthage was utterly destroyed in (if memory serves) 136 BC.

 

I can agree with much of what you have written here. I trust what the bible says about the Holy Spirit convicting people which you could call a creative enlightening power in some sense. But it is just because the HS does do that that we see man actually does have a free will. Man can and often does reject the conviction of the HS often for an extended period of time. Where you see this conviction as being unequal in distribution I see it as man just being more stubborn in their rejection. When the bible tells me that God holds His hands out all day long and that He desires all to come to repentance I believe that. What Stephen said to the Jews {“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit...."Acts of the Apostles 7:51} can be applied to the gentiles as well. But our own salvation would indicate that man can and sometimes will change their minds and that is called free will.
I think if people are honest with themselves when they look back at how they came to trust in Christ Jesus they would see many things that have brought them to the point where they finally humbled themselves and trusted in Him for their salvation.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9
Romans 3:10-18
Ephesians 1:3-14

You view all these through your special lens even after you have been shown by context and scholars that you view is in error. When it was pointed out to you the root of your theology you just scoffed at the information as it did not fit your desired narrative. It is not a matter of whether you believe what I say but you should believe what the bible says.

 

Is God's total supremacy not in Jesus prayer, DaveX?
I get God's total supremacy from John 17 because it is there, just as it is in Romans 3, Ephesians 1 and in every statement in scripture.
Either God is totally supreme...or He isn't God. Instead, at best, he is one of the vast pantheon of lesser gods. So, is God totally supreme, DaveX?

 

Show quotes from me that go against the great scholars you have provided.
Sliverhair, at what point will you admit that your assertions are empty of substance?

As to your last point. I entirely believe what the Bible says, which is why I contend against your assertions.

 

I have shown you as have others so just take the time to read what others have said rather than just dismiss any comment that does not line up with your narrow view. Anyone that has read your posts knows of what I have spoken just as you also know how you have behaved on this board.

 

I like Cato the Elder, he had gravitas … a virtue gravely lacking in todays world. Delenda est Russia, China, S. Korea.

 

I think your use of the word cringeworthy is apt for some of the emotional displays that I have seen. I think that would help explain why we have so many conversions that only last until the first trial.

Without the conviction of the Holy Spirit none would see their sinful nature and desire to change actually why would they want to change?

A.W. Tozer has been famously quoted as saying:

“God does not will which choice you'll make but that you'll be free to make it”

 

I can see Russia & China but why S.Korea?

 

Typo… North Korea

 

Show the quotes, Sliverhair, or admit you are making it up

 

What do feelings have to do with rightly dividing God's word?
I couldn't care less how someone feels. I care what God's word says.

I have been in Sunday school classes where people just spew out "I feel" statements. Do they realize that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked? Who can know it?
When we study God's word, we wrestle with the text until our misguided "feelings" are superceded by God's word as it is.

As to John 17, there certainly is more to learn. In this thread, however, the point is about God's supremacy.

 

The thread is: Can You Come to Christ on Your Own?
The Supremacy of God is front and center.
I highlighted your statement where you give some wiggle room for man to assist God, but the decisive amount would be on God.
Does the word of God teach cooperation with God in order to be saved? If so, please provide the passage or passages that teach us that we must cooperate with God or He cannot save us.

When God states His Sovereignty in Romans 9, should I just ignore it simply because someone else wants to ignore it and proclaim cooperative salvation?

*Romans 9:10-29*
And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”

 

Austin you know what you are like on this board when you respond to my posts so just go and read them again. You dismiss anyone that points out your errors and use whatever pejorative comes to your mind.
How many times have you rejected others posts as humanist or pelagian because they do not fit your errant theological view. I pointed out the bad root of your theology and what did you do other than dismiss the information. It seems you do not want truth.

 

But Austin you do not want to allow God to be sovereign unless He fits into your idea of what sovereign means.