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Featured Church Sign Message Has Low Opinion of Christ and High Opinion of Mankind

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Mar 11, 2023.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 20:12

    12 "The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them"!
     
    #141 Alan Gross, Mar 13, 2023
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. As far as I am concerned all of Scripture matters. BUT to add all of Scripture as being the gospel of Jesus Christ is to change the actual gospel.

    Why do you believe Paul proclaimed that he preached the gospel - Christ crucified - and nothing else? The reason is Paul separated (in his teaching) evangelism and church ministry. Paul condemned immorality in the church, but we do not see this in his evangelism. He seems to have been content with preaching the gospel and then discipling Christians, allowing God to do the work of saving souls.
     
    #142 JonC, Mar 13, 2023
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yep....all four.
     
    #143 JonC, Mar 13, 2023
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  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that any part of the Bible is unrelated to the gospel of Christ?
     
    #144 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That does not make sense.

    What does defending Judaizers have to do with accepting all of Scripture. The Jewish people believed in the works of the Law.

    I am saying that you rightly accept passages about God's sovereignty but wrongly reject passages stating that God responds to our actions.

    The bible is clear. God will judge the wicked for their wickedness. That is a response to human actions. God will hold us accountable for what we say. That is a response to human action.

    Your belief is akin to deus otiosus - God has set up everything but then sits back and watches it unfold as He has designed, never truly interacting with man.
     
    #145 JonC, Mar 13, 2023
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Unrelated? No. But the gospel message is specific.

    We do not throw pearls before swine - BUT we share the gospel with the World.
     
    #146 JonC, Mar 13, 2023
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I am going to assume that you are referring to 1 Corinthians 2:2.

    John Gill's Bible commentary on that verse:

    "2.2 For I determined not to know anything among you,.... This was a resolution the apostle entered into before he came among them, that though he was well versed in human literature, and had a large compass of knowledge in the things of nature, yet would make known nothing else unto them, or make anything else the subject of his ministry,

    save Christ, and him crucified: he had a spiritual and experimental knowledge of Christ himself, and which he valued above all things else; and this qualified him to make him known to others; and which knowledge he was very willing and ready to communicate by preaching the Gospel, which is the means of making known Christ as God's salvation to the souls of men; and on this subject he chiefly insisted, and in which he took great delight and pleasure; he made known the things respecting the person of Christ, as that he was God, the Son of God, and truly man. God and man in one person; the things respecting his office, as that he was the Messiah, the mediator, prophet, priest, and King, the head, husband, Saviour, and Redeemer of his church and people; and the things respecting his work as such, and the blessings of grace procured by him; as that justification is by his righteousness, pardon by his blood, peace, reconciliation, and atonement by his sacrifice, and salvation alone and entirely by him. His determination was to preach none but Christ; not himself, nor man; nor the power and purity of human nature, the free will and works of the creature, but to exclude all and everything from being partners with Christ in the business of salvation. This was the doctrine he chose in the first place, and principally, to insist upon, even salvation by Christ, and him, as

    crucified: that which was the greatest offence to others was the most delightful to him, because salvation comes through and by the cross of Christ; and he dwelt upon this, and determined to do so; it being most for the glory of Christ, and what was owned for the conversion of sinners, the comfort of distressed minds, and is suitable food for faith, as he knew by his own experience."
     
    #147 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The whole Bible is related to the gospel of Christ as the whole Bible is about Christ.
     
    #148 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If you think that, then you haven't really understood anything I have written in this thread.
     
    #149 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you really do sound like your idea of the doctrine of the gospel of Christ is a few historical facts about Jesus as a man(nothing about sin and the need for a perfect righteousness), and the rest is basically "free-range" theology.
     
    #150 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God is sovereign...all the time. All the time...God is sovereign.
     
    #151 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I was actually quoting Paul (see what I mean about you rejecting Scripture).
     
    #152 JonC, Mar 13, 2023
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The issue is nobody is denying that. You are the only one denying Scripture (like your condemnation of Paul's words about what he preached).

    You are inventing a straw man argument.

    We all believe the passages you present. We all believe God is sovereign.

    But we also believe those passages that do not quite fit in your theology (like God punishing people for sin, God answering prayer, God not being the author of sin, ect ).

    There is a reason God gave us His Word, and it was not for you to pick out what you like and dismiss the rest.
     
    #153 JonC, Mar 13, 2023
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    What a load of baloney. I even noted the verse reference, which you did not, and quoted John Gill's commentary on the verse. All we basically get from you, sounding like Gomer Pyle on "The Andy Griffith Show" - "You reject the Scripture! You reject the Scripture!"
     
    #154 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I simply posted a couple of sentences for teaching purposes. I referenced no one in this thread.

    Only in your badly flawed thinking.

    I thank God that He has given me eyes to see and ears to hear His entire Word, the Holy Scriptures.



    upload_2023-3-13_22-23-1.jpeg
     
    #155 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. You redefined the gospel as accepting your theology excluding that God responds to man. That is "another gospel" not preached in Scripture.

    In fact, Paul appealed to those in Athens that they repent for there is a Judgment when God will punish the wicked. And Jesus appealed to a responsive God when He proclaimed the gospel.

    The fact is that most, if not all, of Scripture speaks of God responding to man (either positively or negatively).

    By removing that from "your Bible" you have removed any semblance of theology from your religion and made it simple philosophy.
     
    #156 JonC, Mar 13, 2023
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The gospel is a declaration of what God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have done to procure and secure the salvation of all those whom God chose before the foundation of the world and gave to His Son to be their surety.

    There is nothing in the gospel of Christ about God responding to man. That is espoused in man-based false gospels.

    Nope. You really are stuck on elevating creature-man up on the throne, @JonC.

    upload_2023-3-13_22-33-10.jpeg
     
    #157 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  18. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Six hour warning

    This thread will be closed no sooner than 0930 GMT, (Tue); 530 am EDT (Tue) 230 am PDT (Sat)
     
    #158 Salty, Mar 13, 2023
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    It's been a LONG thread. Good night, everybody!
     
    #159 KenH, Mar 13, 2023
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Brother, am I playing around for a minute! Studying the Bible is fun!

    from: 15 Powerful Bible Verses About God's Sovereignty

    Colossians 1:16

    “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.”

    Psalm 115:3

    “Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.”

    Romans 11:33

    “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

    Isaiah 61:1

    “The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners.”

    Ephesians 1:4-6

    “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.”

    Isaiah 25:8-9

    “He will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The LORD has spoken. In that day they will say, ‘Surely this is our God; we trusted in him, and he saved us. This is the LORD, we trusted in him; let us rejoice and be glad in his salvation.’”

    Jeremiah 32:17

    “Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you.”

    Psalm 121:2

    “My help comes from the Lord, the Maker of heaven and earth.”

    Matthew 19:26

    “And looking at them Jesus said to them, ‘With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.’”

    Proverbs 19:21

    “Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.”

    Acts 5:39

    “But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

    James 4:14-15

    “Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, ‘If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.’”

    Psalm 71:16

    “I will come and proclaim your mighty acts, Sovereign Lord; I will proclaim your righteous deeds, yours alone.”

    1 Chronicles 16:31

    “Let the heavens rejoice, let the earth be glad; let them say among the nations, ‘The Lord reigns!’”

    Revelation 4:11

    “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”


    ...and God permits sin, without being guilty of sin, regardless of our use of, "caused", "permitted", or "authored", by the Determinant Counsel and Foreknowledge of God.

    God knows our thoughts afar off and if He Inspires a Prayer, it Originates from His Spirit, before returning to Him as prayer. When God answers prayer it has been Predestined, by the Determinant Counsel and Foreknowledge of God.

    Source: 25 Bible verses about Prayer, And God's Will

    1 John 5:14

    This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.


    Jeremiah 42:3

    that the Lord your God may tell us the way in which we should walk and the thing that we should do.”


    Colossians 1:9

    For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,


    Matthew 6:9-13

    “Pray, then, in this way:
    ‘Our Father who is in heaven,
    Hallowed be Your name.
    ‘Your kingdom come.
    Your will be done,
    On earth as it is in heaven.
    ‘Give us this day our daily bread.

    Romans 1:10

    always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.

    Isaiah 1:15

    “So when you spread out your hands in prayer,
    I will hide My eyes from you;
    Yes, even though you multiply prayers,
    I will not listen.
    Your hands are covered with blood.

    Matthew 21:22

    And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”

    John 9:31

    We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.

    Isaiah 65:24

    It will also come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear.

    2 Thessalonians 1:11

    To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,

    Philippians 1:9

    And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,

    Source: 25 Bible verses about Prayer, And God's Will

    con't
     
    #160 Alan Gross, Mar 13, 2023
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