Featured 2 Thessalonians 2:13 What does it say?

I agree.

 

I would argue that Ephesians 2 is not giving a chronological order (regenerated and then believes) but rather is talking about God making us who were dead in our sins alive in Christ.

Ephesians 2:1–5 : And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

 

Strawman, bro....strawman.

I never argued against the passage. God made us alive when we were dead in our sins.

We either hold to Scripture or we mold Scripture into a form that fits our desires.

 

I see your point, but at the same time you are reading into the actual passage. It does not divorce regeneration from belief, much less provide a chronological order related to repentance and belief.

 

You keep providing verses that say we were lost before we are saved, that God saves us, ect. BUT none of those passages give a chronological order in the sense that one must be regenerated and then believe.

You can't simply show that God recreates one that is spiritually dead and say that states one must be regenerated before believing. You are reading into the passage.

A just as legitimate argument (one I am NOT actually making) is that God causes one who is dead to believe and then that person is regenerated.

My position is that while we were sinners Christ died for us, and whoever believes will be saved. Regeneration and belief are not chronical events but aspects of God's act of salvation.

It's like arguing one must first repent and then believe (or vice versa) when repentance and belief are different ways of looking at the same faith.

 

No. My argument was NEVER that man acts first. I'm talking solely on regeneration and belief.

I think you may have mixed my comments with others (I think we may have been talking past one another).

 

It means what it says. When we were dead in sin God made us alive in Christ. It is by grace we are saved and not of ourselves.

What part of that do you believe I disagree with???

 

Again, I think we are talking past one another.

2 Thessalonians 2:13–14 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The passage is NOT a chronological order stating regeneration comes first and then belief (or vice versa). Both sides are reading into Scripture.

 

Thank you for the conversation as well. My only pont was that Scripture does not divide regeneration and belief into chronological events. I think you may have lumped me in with other posts (which is easy to do) because you and I seem to be more in agreement than not here.