2 Thessalonians 2:13 What does it say?

[JonC]

Why then are you arguing against canadyjd? This is what he's been telling you and you keep arguing with him. Why?

I am not sure. We were arguing against each other, but I think talking past each other.

My only point was that Scripture does not provide salvation in a chronological order insofar as regeneration and belief goes (Scripture discussed each as aspects of salvation, but salvation as a singular work of God).

Why are you arguing with me???

Can't we all get along?!

 

[canadyjd]

Thanks to everyone that has commented. Very good points have been made, scripture has been quoted and expounded, scholars were quoted from both sides of the spectrum and the debate has been civil.

Probably one of the best threads I’ve been part of.

Since all the points have been identified and hashed out, and we are getting close to the end, am going to ask a moderator to close the thread.

Again, thanks to all.

peace to you

 

[Iconoclast]

"canadyjd,

However, I disagree that scripture doesn’t give the chronological order.

A simple reading shows it does.

In Ephesians 2, it says “But God…. While we were dead in trespasses and sin.. “

Yes,,,But God

That is giving a chronological order of how God brought us to salvation. God was acting while we were dead in trespasses and sin.
When Jesus said in John 10 that He knows His sheep, He calls them by name, they follow Him…. that is giving a chronological order to salvation.

Yes it pieces together very well.

Jesus said no one knows the Father except the Sin and those He (the Sin) wills to reveal Him. That gives an order; Christ must first exercise His will in revealing God to those He has chosen.

Yes that is easily seen

Even in the passage we are discussing, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, there is an “order” by way of explanation that salvation comes 1. By Sanctification (being set apart) by God Holy Spirit and 2. Belief in the truth.

Yes,,,very consistent

The order Paul gives us in scripture is the order in which it occurs. First, Holy Spirit sets us apart for salvation Second, that salvation occurs by means of belief in the gospel.
Now, Paul doesn’t give every “step” in the process here. We know God Holy Spirit “draws” us, “convicts us” of sin and the truth of the Gospel and indwells us at salvation as a pledge promise that we are in a right relationship with God.

We see exactly what you have suggested.
Thank you for walking us through it.

And, of course, we can’t leave out Jesus’s intercession for us at the right hand of the Father in this life and at the Great Throne Judgment.

Yes, I believe scripture does teach the “logical order” of salvation, though in practice it seems, at times, instantaneous.

Yes very clear.

Peace to you[/QUOTE]

 

[canadyjd]

"canadyjd,

A simple reading shows it does.

Yes,,,But God

Yes it pieces together very well.

Yes that is easily seen

Yes,,,very consistent

We see exactly what you have suggested.
Thank you for walking us through it.

Yes very clear.

Peace to you

[/QUOTE]
It is good to see you posting again. Thanks for the kind words.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

I am not sure. We were arguing against each other, but I think talking past each other.

My only point was that Scripture does not provide salvation in a chronological order insofar as regeneration and belief goes (Scripture discussed each as aspects of salvation, but salvation as a singular work of God).

Why are you arguing with me???

Can't we all get along?!

No argument. I just cannot figure out what your beef has been when you are agreeing with the scripture that canadyjd brought up.

 

[JonC]

No argument. I just cannot figure out what your beef has been when you are agreeing with the scripture that canadyjd brought up.

Why not ask him why he disagreed with me? It takes two to tango and we danced for a bit.

 

[AustinC]

Why not ask him why he disagreed with me? It takes two to tango and we danced for a bit.

Jon, I despise dancing with you when you won't be straightforward, therefore I am done with you in this matter. When you want to be honest, let me know.

 

[JonC]

Jon, I despise dancing with you when you won't be straightforward, therefore I am done with you in this matter. When you want to be honest, let me know.

??

I have been VERY straight forward.

I told you @canadyjd and I must have been talking past one another.

I was talking about passages stating redemption coming before belief in a chronological order and he was talking about a chronological order to divine election and belief.

I am not sure what part of that you do not grasp.

The simplest I can put it, and I'll type slowly, is he and I were disagreeing with one another because we were talking about different "chronological orders" without each of us realizing it. It was not a true disagreement but a miscommunication.