Featured Will People Be Condemned for Not Believing in Jesus though They’ve Never Heard His Name?

I completely agree. Paul was going down the road in unbelief and God had mercy on him therefore Paul became, of belief. Paul had been marked out to be, of belief, by God not by or of himself, but according to mercy.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

IMHO By the Spirit of Truth God translated Paul from unbelief unto belief. And IMHO the same goes for all.

 

A projection from your anti-calvin playbook

I believe all of God's word and love every verse. I believe everything God tells me.
What makes you think you are understanding God's word correctly?

Indeed, there is no point. I thought you were saying your adieu. Did you mis-speak?

Of course not. It doesn't make your sins right either. All people are sinners who are dependent upon God's gracious forgiveness. Calvin is no different.

Here you go with your accusations again. Why do you keep trying to act as a prophet? You keep getting it wrong.

I invite you to share the Bible commentary of Calvin that you hate. Explain why you hate it and why your interpretation is better. It's time you show me your expertise in John Calvin. You're being incredibly vague so I invite you to be very specific about your hatred of Calvin's Bible interpretations and why your interpretation is better.

Again with the attempt at prophetic projections. You keep getting it wrong.
You know, the Bible frowns on false prophets who are not led by the Holy Spirit.

 

As I said before, I am not a prophet nor do I pretend that I am. I respond to the posts as I read them. If I say someone is coming from a calvinist point of view it is because what they are posting is coming from the calvinist view.

Once again I do not hate calvin but what he tried to put forward as scripture. You seem to think that calvin got it right show me why his understanding is correct. The church for the first 400 years did not believe salvation was as augustine and later calvin said it was. Why do you trust augustine and calvin rather than the bible?

Have you taken the time to actually check out the history of your philosophy, I doubt you have. If you had then you would not be asking for me to show you the errors of calvinism as you would already know them.

 

Paul 'read it into it': "he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth".

 

Exo 3:20 So I will stretch out My hand and strike Egypt with all My wonders which I will do in its midst; and after that he will let you go.

God was clear that He would break the will/resolve of Pharaoh through the trials that would come upon Egypt. Once again you are reading into the text something that is not there.

KY trust what the scripture actually say and not what you want/need them to say.

Your letting your calvinist determinism determine what you see in the biblical text.
What does the bible say
1] I will stretch out My hand and strike Egypt with all My wonders
2] after that he will let you go Exo 3:20

Sure looks clear to me, the question is why will you not accept what the bible says?
God has the right to reject those who will not accept Him on His terms. Pharaoh through his stubborn rebellion showed that he would not accept the rule of God.
Pharaoh hardened his own heart as many do today or are you saying that the only reason that someone rejects God is when God makes them reject Him?

 

Indeed, God is not obligated to save anyone. God has the right to condemn every human because they have sinned against Him.

The Bible tells us that no one will "accept" God without God first drawing that person to God and, "while they were still dead" make them alive.

The Bible is so very clear in telling you this. Do you believe what the Bible tells you?
(Ephesians 2:1-9)

 

Of course I do, but the question is do you?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

God draws all people to Himself via various means, creation, conviction of the Holy Spirit, hearing the gospel, reading God's word etc. That is why God says man can know "His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,".

As John said regarding scripture:
Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

You seem to think that someone being "dead in trespasses and sins" means unable to think or do anything. The context shows that you are in error. While man does tend to reject the does not mean they will always reject God.

What does the bible tell us
Joh 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The people being saved are those that actually do something, they have to believe, God does not do it for them.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,...

Have you taken the time to actually look into the history of calvinism? Just curious if you are going to do so.

 

Of course I do, the question is, do you?
See how that works?

Great verses that point you to God as the one who draws you to Himself. Thanks for sharing these great verses. Read the whole of Ephesians and Romans to see why they are so supportive of what I am telling you.

Here, you are missing an important fact. A person can know that there is a God by observing nature. What they cannot, and more importantly to your view of the Bible, they will not do is turn to Jesus on their own. No one will or has ever been saved by observing creation alone. Again, read all of Romans to see why they cannot and will not do so.

Yep, God's word is given so that you may believe. There is nothing in this verse telling us that humans are the cause. In fact, the cause is told you. God has John write it down for the purpose that you would believe, you personally. Are you going to take credit away from God and give it to yourself, Silverhair?

You are trying to play the prophet again and you are failing miserably.

The context actually disagrees with what you have said. Read all of Romans and Ephesians, as well as all of the gospel of John. Your claim is rejected by God in His Word. It is interesting that you do not see it in the very verses you quoted. I wonder why?

Fantastic scripture that shows you, you didn't choose God until God already chose you.

Please read what you just wrote because everyone else will read it and see that you just said we are saved by works. Silverhair, you have tossed grace aside in order to try be saved by works. Moreso, you reject God's work. Be very careful, Silverhair, you are on very shaky ground.

Great verse. Read what comes before this and know it doesn't say what you claimed in the bolded statement you made, above.

No one cares about Calvinism, Silverhair. Moreso, you have provided no evidence that you know anything about John Calvin. Until you provide evidence that you have read anything by John Calvin, I will assume you are clueless as to what he taught and here you are merely using the name to avoid your error in understanding salvation.

You told us all these graceless words:
"The people being saved are those that actually do something, they have to believe, God does not do it for them."

Now, did you mis-speak when you said you were going to bid us adieu?

 

@taisto I ask if you actually believe the bible because you do not seem to want to accept what the bible says as you keep trying to find escape clauses. The fact that you will not even check out the history of your philosophy is telling. You do not want truth but rather someone to support you in your echo chamber of calvinism.

I have challenged you to actually check out the history of your philosophy but you keep running away from it. If your calvinism is true then you should be willing to prove me wrong.

As I said God draws all people to Himself John 12:32 did you miss that point or do you conveniently pass over that part of the bible. And He does this for a very good reason:

1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Because He wants all people to come to Him He uses various means to draw them. Creation, conviction of the Holy Spirit, hearing the gospel, reading God's word etc.

If man were unable to use this information and turn and trust in God then what would be reason for God to present it?

God is the only one that can save and He has determined that it is only through faith in Him that one will be saved. Those in the OT trusted in the pre-incarnate Christ were saved, unless you do not think any of the OT saints were saved? Those that hear the gospel message, special revelation, and freely trust in Christ will be saved. And unless you think God is unable to save those that trust in Him through general revelation those that still come to Him that way can be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

Which fits nicely with the desire of God

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The people being saved are those that actually do something, they have to believe, God does not do it for them.
Those are not graceless words as you call them, they are biblical truth.

 

What,specific escape clause am I trying to find? I am not the one who says to myself, all others, and God, "The people being saved are those that actually do something".

You keep barking up the wrong tree and you wonder why there is no movement. When you tell us all you know about John Calvin and what, specifically, you disagree with him about God, then I will listen. Until then, you're just barking at shadows in an empty tree.

Tell me, based upon the amount of time you think you know me, what is my philosophy that you think you've challenged?
Do you think I care about the term "calvinism" which you toss around like it's a doggie toy you're chewing?
There is no need to prove a phantom of your own imagination, Silverhair.

Tell me what the context is, Silverhair.

The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.” He said this to indicate how he was going to die.
(John 12:31-33)

For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
(John 6:44-45)

There is one means of drawing. The Father.
You can list a hundred things that may all sound plausible, but the Bible tells us very clearly that the Father draws people to Jesus and that is the bottom line.

Present what?
Here you tell us that man uses information to turn and trust God.

Do you notice what you have left out in your statement.

Look at these verses and note that they don't support man as the determinator of his own destiny.

I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus. He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.
(1 Timothy 2:1-6)
Who is the one person who can reconcile man and God. The one person, Silverhair. Is that one person you?

Hey, you finally got something right. Will you agree that God is the one who gives us faith to believe?

You're on a roll. Who gave Adam the promise? Or did Adam come up with the idea himself? Silverhair, God gave the promise and God kept the promise by saving many, many, people before God brought the promise to earth.
Did all those people believe because The people being saved are those that actually do something".

Now, quote the passage that says "freely trust without God drawing them first." You have created an idea about what man does, but you rarely speak about what God always does before people trust. If you would accept what God tells you in Ephesians 2:1-9 you would rejoice in what God does even while people are still dead in their sins. Do you rejoice in what God did for you, before you ever believed, Silverhair?

It's not what I think, it's what God tells us in Romans 1 and Romans 3 that matters.

Amen.
Who draws men to Jesus, Silverhair?

1 Timothy 2:1-6
Read it.

And again, you attempt to remove grace and make salvation happen by works.
You know you can keep sharing that phrase with everyone and it will never once be salvation by grace alone. Not ever. It will always be salvation by works.
Your words are not God's words and that is the problem you are having when you keep saying them.
Who draws people to Jesus, Silverhair?
Is God too weak to save by grace alone? Must man "do something" to be saved so that they cause God to act?

Your gospel is graceless, Silverhair.

 

Jesus Him self said "There is none righteous". That includes all of us.
MB

 

This is really sad isn't it?.It seems like Satan is winning sometimes. I asked a man if he knew where he was going when he dies. He cursed me for about 5 minutes and then left. It was a little scary the way he looked at me. I didn't say anything further. I just walked away.
MB

 

Matthew 19: 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Brother Glen

 

What verse is that?
Jesus said "only God is good."
*Romans 3:10-18 says "As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous— not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.” “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.” “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” “They rush to commit murder. Destruction and misery always follow them. They don’t know where to find peace.” “They have no fear of God at all.”

*Psalm 53:1-4 says:
"Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good! God looks down from heaven on the entire human race; he looks to see if anyone is truly wise, if anyone seeks God. But no, all have turned away; all have become corrupt. No one does good, not a single one! Will those who do evil never learn? They eat up my people like bread and wouldn’t think of praying to God."

God certainly tells us that no one is righteous, no one is good, and no one seeks God if God doesn't first draw that person to Jesus so they can see Jesus and believe.

 

All you did was make my case for me. I ask those questions in regard to anyone who says someone who has never heard the gospel will be 'saved.'

 

I will continue to ask these questions.

Yes or No: Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation, a danger in which they were not before?

 

Don't we love these straight answers?

Denying it once is unpardonable?

I asked for Yes or No. Any gyrations are yours.

Does that mean they have one, and only one, chance of salvation, when told the gospel for the first time? That's what you indicated.

 

Yours is a question with a statement, which is why one cannot answer yes or no.
Your question is:
"Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation?"

Answer: No. They were already damned regardless of hearing the gospel or not.
Preaching the gospel gives them an opportunity to have hope of reconciliation should they believe. Should they not believe they remain in their previous state of damnation.

Then you make a statement: "a danger in which they were not before"

Here I disagree with your statement. They were damned before they ever heard. The danger was the exact same, but they were just ignorant of the danger.

 

No

However, in 2 Corinthians 1, I think, Paul speaks of presenting the gospel of Christ and Him crucified as a “sweet aroma” of life to some and death to those that perish.

I haven’t really understood that exactly. It may refer to a greater punishment in hell.

peace to you

 

That really is a Winner. Thank you, taisto!