Gaza terrorism by Israel

[dad2]

The extreme bombardment of Gaza and destruction of apartments with babies and families etc is terrorizing civilians. Is this something God or Christians could possibly support? I say no.

 

[xlsdraw]

The extreme bombardment of Gaza and destruction of apartments with babies and families etc is terrorizing civilians. Is this something God or Christians could possibly support? I say no.

Bologna

 

[JonC]

Israel has the right to defend itself.

Unlike the attack on Israel (where women and children were killed....women raped and killed...children decapitated....kidnapped....) Israel is responding to an attack.

And the attack is by the government of Gaza (Hamas).


We have to remember that the government of the Gaza Strip holds a position that Israel should not exist.


Now, how is Israel attacking Gaza? They are spreading flyers for citizens to leave an area before they attack. They fire "dud" missiles before an attack. They broadcast as a public service message warnings on the cellular network so civilians can leave before an attack.


The question is whether there is such a thing as a just war.

Then the question is whether Israel (and Jews worldwide) have a right to live, and if so can they defend themselves?


Part of the issue is the propaganda of Israel's occupation of Palestine land. When we think that we think that Israel occupies actual Palestinian land. But they don't. What Palestine means is that Israel occupies Israel, which they want to be Palestine.


Put it closer to us:

If Mexico was hitting California with missiles, entering California and killing civilians....should the US respond?

If the US was bombing Canada, killing, raping, and kidnapping Canadian civilians, should Canada respond?

Now, pretend that this has been going on for a decade but just escalated.


The issue is this seems to just getting started. Israel needs to end Hamas, at least, in order to protect its citizens.

Then there is Hezbollah - which is dedicated to the inhalation of Jews worldwide. Then there is Iran.


I guess the answer to your question would be the answer you would give if a neighboring country came into your city, rapped and killed your mother and wife, beheaded your children and grand children, and kidnapped your brother. And they did this across your country.

Would you expect your country to respond?

 

[dad2]

Bologna

Not very articulate eh?

 

[dad2]

Israel has the right to defend itself.

Blowing up toddlers in an apartment building is not defending yourself.

Unlike the attack on Israel (where women and children were killed....women raped and killed...children decapitated....kidnapped....) Israel is responding to an attack.

The Hamas terrorists ALSO killed babies and civilians.

And the attack is by the government of Gaza (Hamas).

Government with no power that hides in basements?

We have to remember that the government of the Gaza Strip holds a position that Israel should not exist.

And Israel the position now that they should not exist?

Now, how is Israel attacking Gaza? They are spreading flyers for citizens to leave an area before they attack. They fire "dud" missiles before an attack. They broadcast as a public service message warnings on the cellular network so civilians can leave before an attack.

Hilarious. No airport or escape possible by sea, the crossings are closed or bombed, no water or food or medical, extreme heavy bombardment day and night..etc. Would you take your kids for a stroll in the rubble in those conditions?

The question is whether there is such a thing as a just war.

The answer is no.

Then the question is whether Israel (and Jews worldwide) have a right to live, and if so can they defend themselves?

Killing families is not defending yourself.

Part of the issue is the propaganda of Israel's occupation of Palestine land. When we think that we think that Israel occupies actual Palestinian land. But they don't. What Palestine means is that Israel occupies Israel, which they want to be Palestine.

God will give them the land after they accept Jesus in the end. Not before. Period. They took it themselves. So yes, they took people's land and made them refugees including tens of thousands of Christians.

Put it closer to us:

If Mexico was hitting California with missiles, entering California and killing civilians....should the US respond?

Cartels are killing tens of thousands with fentanyl etc. The US responds how? Opening wide the borders!

If the US was bombing Canada, killing, raping, and kidnapping Canadian civilians, should Canada respond?

Canada has always had a secret weapon that works against that. It is called the Canadian Winter

 

[JonC]

Blowing up toddlers in an apartment building is not defending yourself.


The Hamas terrorists ALSO killed babies and civilians.

Government with no power that hides in basements?


And Israel the position now that they should not exist?


Hilarious. No airport or escape possible by sea, the crossings are closed or bombed, no water or food or medical, extreme heavy bombardment day and night..etc. Would you take your kids for a stroll in the rubble in those conditions?

The answer is no.



Killing families is not defending yourself.


God will give them the land after they accept Jesus in the end. Not before. Period. They took it themselves. So yes, they took people's land and made them refugees including tens of thousands of Christians.

Cartels are killing tens of thousands with fentanyl etc. The US responds how? Opening wide the borders!
Canada has always had a secret weapon that works against that. It is called the Canadian Winter

Warning residents that you are going to blow up apartment buildings and schools, urging them to leave, because their government is using apartments, schools and hospitals to store weapons is defending your citizens.

Hamas is not a government with no power hiding in basements. They use civilians. This is fairly common.


Again, you need to answer the question.

Suppose a neighboring country entered your city, raped and killed your wife, kidnapped your brother, decapitated your children, bombed neighboring buildings, slaughtered young men and women at a concert, and did this across your country.

Suppose this government was storing their weapons and soldiers in apartment buildings, schools and hospitals. That government is using civilians as a shield, or more properly a political tool to galvanize like-minded neighboring countries.

Suppose the reason they did this is that they believe you should not exist.

Now....your country decides it has to respond. So it drops leaflets urging civilians to leave a specific area, it sends messages on the cellular network urging people to leave a specific area, it sends "dummy" missiles letting people know which buildings will be targeted, and it warns that a full scale attack will occur in 24 hours.

Meanwhile your neighbors are still dying.

What would you tell your government to make them stand down?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Not very articulate eh?

No need to be a smart-alec. This is already a quite sensitive topic.

I perfectly understood what xisdraw meant with his one word.

Here is how it is dad2:

• LIke JonC said, Israel has sent word and written messages for the people in Gaza to move southward for their own sake. That's been reported and is still being reported in reputable sources even as late as this morning.
• Hamas is telling the Gaza people to "stay put". Why?!?! The only reason would be that the deaths of Gaza civilians would stir up the anti-Semitism across the world in universities, message boards online, churches, and more

Hamas does not CARE about the people of Gaza. In fact, the more people of Gaza who die in the war, the better they like it. It brings sympathy from the anti-Semites to them.

And it's working.

 

[JonC]

Not very articulate eh?

To be fair, if it's good bologna it makes for a great sandwich.

 

[dad2]

Warning residents that you are going to blow up apartment buildings and schools, urging them to leave, because their government is using apartments, schools and hospitals to store weapons is defending your citizens.

Proof weapons are stored there? If that were true, would some toddler on the 34th floor know some grenades were once in the basement? Blowing up the toddler's family is not defending yourself.

Hamas is not a government with no power hiding in basements. They use civilians. This is fairly common.

You just said they hide weapons, no? If 2.3 million people in a small area have some fanatics among them, don't kill the civilians, kill the enemy.

Again, you need to answer the question.

Suppose a neighboring country entered your city, raped and killed your wife, kidnapped your brother, decapitated your children, bombed neighboring buildings, slaughtered young men and women at a concert, and did this across your country.

I would want them killed as justice. Too bad many murderers in the US and Canada etc do not get justice.

Suppose this government was storing their weapons and soldiers in apartment buildings, schools and hospitals. That government is using civilians as a shield, or more properly a political tool to galvanize like-minded neighboring countries.

What can some criminal holed up in say, a large apartment building do? If they claimed to be saving the people in that apartment, why would they kill those same people? The answer is not to kill all those people for them!

Now....your country decides it has to respond. So it drops leaflets urging civilians to leave a specific area, it sends messages on the cellular network urging people to leave a specific area, it sends "dummy" missiles letting people know which buildings will be targeted, and it warns that a full scale attack will occur in 24 hours.

That is a joke. There is no way out and the whole area is under extreme bombardment. No water, food, medical as well. You think they should wander in rubble till they die? Telling a million people to leave right away is not an honest warning. They are all trapped in that virtual big prison camp.

Meanwhile your neighbors are still dying.

What would you tell your government to make them stand down?

How many rockets were fired in the last few days from Gaza? The danger now seems to be for the population there, not elsewhere.

 

[dad2]

To be fair, if it's good bologna it makes for a great sandwich.

But not a good discussion or point.

 

[dad2]

No need to be a smart-alec. This is already a quite sensitive topic.

I perfectly understood what xisdraw meant with his one word.

Nice. Do you read tea leaves also?

Here is how it is dad2:

• LIke JonC said, Israel has sent word and written messages for the people in Gaza to move southward for their own sake. That's been reported and is still being reported in reputable sources even as late as this morning.

Move? Have all bombs stopped to allow that? Water? Medical? Food? A million people are supposed to walk in rubble (sick, babies etc) to where exactly? Tel Aviv? Jerusalem? The other part of their prison camp until if they survive they get ordered out of that side now? That is a hypocritical sick joke.

• 
  

  [*]Hamas is telling the Gaza people to "stay put". Why?!?! The only reason would be that the deaths of Gaza civilians

Advice of terrorists aside, moving does not seem to be a realistic humane option.

Hamas does not CARE about the people of Gaza.

Those who enslaved them there and are blowing up their apartments do??

In fact, the more people of Gaza who die in the war, the better they like it. It brings sympathy from the anti-Semites to them.

And it's working.

All that aside, how about stop killing the babies and civilians, period. Now?

 

[JonC]

Proof weapons are stored there? If that were true, would some toddler on the 34th floor know some grenades were once in the basement? Blowing up the toddler's family is not defending yourself.


You just said they hide weapons, no? If 2.3 million people in a small area have some fanatics among them, don't kill the civilians, kill the enemy.



I would want them killed as justice. Too bad many murderers in the US and Canada etc do not get justice.


What can some criminal holed up in say, a large apartment building do? If they claimed to be saving the people in that apartment, why would they kill those same people? The answer is not to kill all those people for them!

That is a joke. There is no way out and the whole area is under extreme bombardment. No water, food, medical as well. You think they should wander in rubble till they die? Telling a million people to leave right away is not an honest warning. They are all trapped in that virtual big prison camp.

How many rockets were fired in the last few days from Gaza? The danger now seems to be for the population there, not elsewhere.

Off topic. We are not talking about some criminal held up in a basement. We are talking about Hamas.

If your point is that the civilians support Hamas, then from what I have seen I agree.

It does not matter when the Hamas rockets stopped. The point is to keep them from restarting.



I will ask again.....if it were your wife rapped and killed, your children decapitated, your father kidnapped, your neighbors bummed......what would you expect of your government?

To fire until they stop and wait for them to restart?

To allow then to kill families in your country until there are none left?


You are also wrong about defense.

Destroying the weapons used to kill your citizens is defending your country, even if there are civilian casualties.

You may know a better way, but you are wrong to say it is not defence.

 

[dad2]

]

Off topic. We are not talking about some criminal held up in a basement. We are talking about Hamas.

If it is off topic why did you mention they hide in apartments? I was addressing the imaginary scenario YOU invented.

If your point is that the civilians support Hamas, then from what I have seen I agree.

Maybe they simply trust Israel less than them.

It does not matter when the Hamas rockets stopped. The point is to keep them from restarting.

In your invented scenario, the culprits were still killing your people outside. Relating that to Gaza, if the rockets have stopped now that would mean that they are not hurting people outside anymore. That goes toward what reason is there to blow up apartments then?

I will ask again.....if it were your wife rapped and killed, your children decapitated, your father kidnapped, your neighbors bummed......what would you expect of your government?

Sorry, you lost credibility for imaginary scenarios and slurred an attempt at addressing one as off topic.
So, reality is that babies are being bombed by Israel. I do not see that as being of God or justified.

To fire until they stop and wait for them to restart?

No, but if they can not hurt outsiders as in your little story, then it no longer fits as any parable or comparison.

To allow then to kill families in your country until there are none left?

I am a stranger on earth. My home is in heaven, thank you very much. Babies in the country I live are being killed in the millions. Citizens are being killed by criminals who often get away with it. etc etc. The situation in Gaza is that civilians are being killed and apartments blown up all over constantly. You seem to want to call those people doing the terror the good guys and justify them.

You are also wrong about defense.

Destroying the weapons used to kill your citizens is defending your country, even if there are civilian casualties.

A baby is not a weapon, or a mom or child. Really. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

You may know a better way, but you are wrong to say it is not defence.

I am absolutely correct in noting that blowing up civilians wily nily is not defense! I hate to break it to you but there is no defense possible when you took people's lands and are surrounded by their friends! That is the problem. If you shoot down a missile, that is a defense. If tanks roll over your border and you blow them up that is defense. If you blow up 100 apartment building with people living there, that is terrorism.

 

[JonC]

I hate to break it to you but there is no defense possible when you took people's lands and are surrounded by their friends! That is the problem.

Now we get to it.

Anyway,

To address your earlier question....yes, Hamas has continued firing rockets into Israel.


Israel did not take land occupied by Islamic friends.

The US, Canada, and the UK were instrumental in the establishment of Palestine and Israel. Even so, the neighboring Islamic nations attacked Israel. Guess what. Israel won, but did not keep the conquered land. They agreed that Palestine and Israel should exist.

You also have to remember that even more than what is now Israel was Israel land before there was even Muslim nations.


So going back in time to pre WW2 doesn't help. If we do that then Canada, the US, the UK, France ..none of these countries have a right to defend themselves. Every nation displaced another.


What you have is an Islamic terrorist government in Gaza and an Islamic terrorist organization in Lebanon (funded by Iran) attacking Israel because they hold an ideology that the Jews should not exist and should be eradicated worldwide.


Your solution is let Israel die (I take it you would include Jews in the US and Canada as well). I like Israel's solution of Israel and a Palestinian state. People differ on this topic.

But the bottom line is Israel, Canada, the UK, the US, France, and Germany are all countries.....regardless of how they came to be.

I have to ask......why is it OK to decapitate Jewish babies but not OK to destroy an apartment building after urging the residents repeatedly to leave?

 

[dad2]

Now we get to it.

To address the problem one must get to it

To address your earlier question....yes, Hamas has continued firing rockets into Israel.

Source?

Israel did not take land occupied by Islamic friends.

So no one had it before?

The US, Canada, and the UK were instrumental in the establishment of Palestine and Israel. Even so, the neighboring Islamic nations attacked Israel. Guess what. Israel won, but did not keep the conquered land. They agreed that Palestine and Israel should exist.

I am not concerned with Israel existing, prophesy tells us it will be there. The concern is pretending God already brought them there.

You also have to remember that even more than what is now Israel was Israel land before there was even Muslim nations.

And North America was part of Adam's world. Can I repossess some Malibu mansions now? How about a few native reserves?

So going back in time to pre WW2 doesn't help. If we do that then Canada, the US, the UK, France ..none of these countries have a right to defend themselves.

If they blow up civilians (as in Hiroshima for example) I say the same thing, I don't agree with it.

What you have is an Islamic terrorist government in Gaza and an Islamic terrorist organization in Lebanon (funded by Iran) attacking Israel because they hold an ideology that the Jews should not exist and should be eradicated worldwide.

Some government when they can't leave the place. Some government when they hide in basements or wherever. Some government when they have no army and no water or power or medical etc. The problem then is that killers hide in civilian populations. The answer to that is not to kill everyone.

Your solution is let Israel die (I take it you would include Jews in the US and Canada as well).

The problem in this thread is the blowing up of children. The solution to that is not to blow up children and civilians.We are not here to provide answers to Israel. I already chimed in there and said ONLY AFTER they accept Jesus will they be safe, Period. There IS no other answer. No other way. No other possible solution. Meanwhile, I do not justify their blowing apartments up.

I like Israel's solution of Israel and a Palestinian state. People differ on this topic.

There is no solution no matter what anyone likes. (other than that mentioned). But I would think that the better the people are treated, the better things will be over there.

But the bottom line is Israel, Canada, the UK, the US, France, and Germany are all countries.....regardless of how they came to be.

And Christians have New Jerusalem. So..?

I have to ask......why is it OK to decapitate Jewish babies but not OK to destroy an apartment building after urging the residents repeatedly to leave?

It isn't of course. Please everyone stop killing children!

 

[JonC]

I am not concerned with Israel existing, prophesy tells us it will be there. The concern is pretending God already brought them there.

And North America was part of Adam's world. Can I repossess some Malibu mansions now? How about a few native reserves?

If they blow up civilians (as in Hiroshima for example) I say the same thing, I don't agree with it.

Some government when they can't leave the place. Some government when they hide in basements or wherever. Some government when they have no army and no water or power or medical etc. The problem then is that killers hide in civilian populations. The answer to that is not to kill everyone.

The problem in this thread is the blowing up of children. The solution to that is not to blow up children and civilians.We are not here to provide answers to Israel. I already chimed in there and said ONLY AFTER they accept Jesus will they be safe, Period. There IS no other answer. No other way. No other possible solution. Meanwhile, I do not justify their blowing apartments up.

There is no solution no matter what anyone likes. (other than that mentioned). But I would think that the better the people are treated, the better things will be over there.

And Christians have New Jerusalem. So..?

It isn't of course. Please everyone stop killing children!

But Israel is not killing children. Hamas is. Hamas is using Israel to kill children (Israel has been urging them to leave, Hamas has been telling them not to leave).


Rockets were intercepted by Israel this afternoon. There was an attack (on the ground) south of Jerusalem this afternoon.


By your account, WW2 was wrong. The US should have allowed the Nazis to accomplish their goals because civilians were killed in the war.

That is not sustainable


And prophecy does not mean inaction.



Either way children will die.

It is not a matter of choosing which children.

It is a matter of deciding whether a nation has the right to defend itself against terrorists.



There are two choices -

1. Allow Islamic groups to eradicate Israel - raping and killing women, decapitating children, killing men.....until Israel no longer exists....and then continuing their stated goal to eradicate Jews worldwide.

2. Israel needs to defend itself and end the present threat against them.

You vote #1. I vote #2.

We have to agree to disagree.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well this thread is helpful

 

[JonC]

Well this thread is helpful

This thread is revealing.

Hey ...yesterday I was at Times Square. Looks like I just missed the antisemite rally.

Have you read the Harvard student statements against Israel?

 

[dad2]

But Israel is not killing children. Hamas is.

Israel-Hamas updates: 45 killed in Israel strike on Gaza apartment block

Israel strikes Gaza killing 13 people, including four children

etc etc etc How would you bomb apartments in a heavily populated area without killing people?? So yes, of course they are killing children.

Hamas is using Israel to kill children (Israel has been urging them to leave, Hamas has been telling them not to leave).

That is a bit like the kid who claimed that the other kid hit his fist with their face.
The bombs leveling that apartments were not from Hamas. Let's be honest.

By your account, WW2 was wrong.

In retrospect, yes. Including Hiroshima. The result is modern governments acting a lot like the Germans did but in greater moral decay.

The US should have allowed the Nazis to accomplish their goals because civilians were killed in the war.

The world was outraged at the evil of the Nazis, and got rid of them...sort of. They used to try to focus on military targets as a rule, no?

And prophecy does not mean inaction.

It sure doesn't mean blow up apartment action.

Either way children will die.

No excuse for targeting apartments.

It is not a matter of choosing which children.

It is a matter of deciding whether a nation has the right to defend itself against terrorists.

They have no right to mass murder civilians. God does not like that. Defending yourself is not killing a toddler. That is terrorism.

There are two choices -

1. Allow Islamic groups to eradicate Israel - raping and killing women, decapitating children, killing men.....until Israel no longer exists....and then continuing their stated goal to eradicate Jews worldwide.

No. The question is how to address that problem. Treating the arabs in prison camps better might be a start or even freeing them! Blowing up their kids is not the answer or any defense. It is revenge and madness.

2. Israel needs to defend itself and end the present threat against them.

Says who? God? No. He is their defense. They could have total protection almost instantly any time they wanted! Jesus. If they want to get along with the people in that area, I would think they need to try to fit in..or...

We have to agree to disagree.

OK. I just do not believe God is asking anyone to blow up civilians, whatever righteous little cause they claim to have.

 

[JonC]

Israel-Hamas updates: 45 killed in Israel strike on Gaza apartment block

Israel strikes Gaza killing 13 people, including four children

etc etc etc How would you bomb apartments in a heavily populated area without killing people?? So yes, of course they are killing children.


That is a bit like the kid who claimed that the other kid hit his fist with their face.
The bombs leveling that apartments were not from Hamas. Let's be honest.



In retrospect, yes. Including Hiroshima. The result is modern governments acting a lot like the Germans did but in greater moral decay.


The world was outraged at the evil of the Nazis, and got rid of them...sort of. They used to try to focus on military targets as a rule, no?


It sure doesn't mean blow up apartment action.


No excuse for targeting apartments.


They have no right to mass murder civilians. God does not like that. Defending yourself is not killing a toddler. That is terrorism.


No. The question is how to address that problem. Treating the arabs in prison camps better might be a start or even freeing them! Blowing up their kids is not the answer or any defense. It is revenge and madness.


Says who? God? No. He is their defense. They could have total protection almost instantly any time they wanted! Jesus. If they want to get along with the people in that area, I would think they need to try to fit in..or...

OK. I just do not believe God is asking anyone to blow up civilians, whatever righteous little cause they claim to have.

I disagree.

First, you are wrong about God not asking people to kill civilians (obviously), but I am not making this some type of holy war (that isn't my argument).

My argument is that a nation has the right to defend itself even against an Islamic nation that will use citizens as a shield to gain support with other Islamic nations.

Why you expect Israel to simply allow Hamas to kill its citizens is beyond me. I don't get that.

I do get that deaths (civilian and soldiers) on both sides is a bad thing. It is sad.

But your solution - that Israel not defend itself because civilians will die and instead simply allow its civilians die is not something I can agree with.