Featured Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology

Actually, it does. That is what a snake bite to the heel is (without medical treatment, anyway).

You are working too hard. It is much easier to simply accept God's Word, even if you don't like it


Acts 2:22–24 Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

John 8:37–44 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father. . . . But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father.” If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."



Who killed Jesus?

Godless men.

Who handed Jesus over to be killed?

Men doing the will of Satan.


But this was according to God's predetermined plan. Jesus lay down His own life. He was obedient even unto death.

What did God do?

God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.


This is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

No. We do not agree.

You are leaving out Jesus' words that those men were doing the will of their father the Devil, and God's words that Satan had entered Judas.

You are the trying to obscure your rejection of those passages by implying somebody on this thread has even suggested that Satan had authority over Jesus. That is dishonest.

That said, Jesus was Satan's "victim". Jesus willingly laid down His life to be a victim of Satan, to experience the wages of sin. Jesus was, even though you reject it, led as a Lamb to the slaughter and killed by godless men, handed over by Satan.

To deny that Christ lay down His own life in obedience to the Father to suffer and die by the hands of godless men used by Satan and that God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its power is to deny the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You need to consider your arguments carefully because I am not the One you are fighting here.

 

Acts 2:22–24 Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

John 8:37–44 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father. . . . But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father.” If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

 

Yes, the thread is long and it will be closed soon.

And yes, I believe that you are fighting God by rejecting His Word. But I grant that I could be misunderstanding you.

It seems to me (correct me where I misunderstood you) that you reject the following;

1. That Satan entered Judas to betray Jesus.
2. That the godless men who murdered Jesus were acting on behalf of Satan.
3. That those who desired to kill Jesus were "of the Devil", doing his will.
4. That Christ lay down His life willingly to suffer the "work of the Devil"

Now, you can leave the conversation. You can correct any misunderstanding I have of your position. I don't presume to demand you do either.

But as it stands, I do believe that you are fighting against God, denying those passages referenced in 1-4 above, and presenting an explanation of the gospel that is in direct opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I do sincerely hope that I misunderstood your faith. I don't mean that in an off handed way. I hope my conclusion of your faith is a misunderstanding and my own ignorance.

 

It is not condensation at all. Maybe it is sorrow, but not condensation.

Do I believe your faith is different from mine? Yes, I do. NOT because you believe in the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement but because of where that theory has taken you.

Do I believe we share the same gospel? I did at one time, and to be fair I don't know what you share off this board. Now I really don't know that we do.

Here is one example of the gospel of Jesus Christ -

Jesus was delivered over in accordance to God's plan and foreknowledge, crucified and put to death by evil men doing the work of the Devil, suffering the wages of sin and dying for us. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.


Whether you agree with that, I don't know. Online communication is not always the best. It leaves room for misunderstanding. But I do not think you believe that gospel message true.

I am, of course, open to you changing my mind.

And to clarify, I am not questioning your salvation. I have no way of knowing that, and wouldn't opine on that topic as it is not proper on this forum.

 

it isn't mind reading at all. This post is proof.

I agree with the passage that you provided. Nobody takes Christ's life - He lay it down on His own accord.

BUT He does lay His life down. And He lay it down to be murdered by godless men doing Satan's work.


And I DID cite very specific verses. I did not label them because then you would have tried to backtrack it leave the conversation.

You rejected the passages that you disagree with. My "mind reading" was correct. You hold a theory and will not be persuaded by Scripture.


For those who do not realize those were passages @Van rejected - look them up.

Godless men murdered Jesus. (Acts 3)
Those who handed Jesus over to be murdered were doing the work of the Devil. (John 8)

@Van rejects those passages because he cannot reconcile godless men murdering Jesus with Jesus laying down His own life, with nobody taking it, with Jesus going to the Cross as a lamb led to slaughter to be murdered by godless men.

I see no contradiction in those passages. @Van does. Do like Jefferson Van simply tears out passages he disagrees with (not literally....Van just ignores them).


Christ lay down His life, it wasn't taken from Him (He was willing....like a Lamb led to the slaughter). And Satan entered Judas to hand Him over, the Jews doing the work of their father the Devil gave Him to godless men who murdered Him.

Full Stop.

 

Yet Scripture says specifically that "godless men" murdered Jesus.


That should be a "full stop" when it comes to your theory.

Christians should read your words and realize that you are actively rejecting God's Word.

That is your problem, @Van . It has been a constant issue on the BB. You develop some theory and then you go to the Bible and find a verse you believe supports it, and then you ignore the rest of Scripture.

I was correct. You will not be persuaded even by Scripture.

I agree that nobody takes Christ's life as He lays it down willingly.

But I do believe your rejection of "godless men killing Jesus" and those men giving Jesus over to be murdered doing the work of "their father the Devil" is a sin.

The reason I believe this is I believe we are to trust in God and in His Word, and that is impossible if you reject His Word.


Victory is God's alone. But that victory is realized in the Resurrection, not Christ's death.

But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.



You are clinging to part of Penal Substitution Theory, but you are also rejecting parts. That makes your theory inconsistent.