Supralapasarian "Hyper-Calvinism" Defended

[Earth Wind and Fire]

@Earth Wind and Fire You want to know if I see the Biblical scenario as being that the creature has absolutely no free will? Here is my answer:

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Nice dodge

 

[KenH]

Nice dodge

Okie Dokie. Let me be clear for you: Do I believe that the Bible teaches that God has ordained EVERYTHING that has and that will take place over time?

I tell you - emphatically -

 

[SavedByGrace]

Supralapasarian = UNBIBLICAL, HUAMN HERESY!!!

in fact, it is one of the HIGHEST BLASPHEMIES!!! and must be CONDEMNED as from the DEVIL HIMSELF!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Okie Dokie. Let me be clear for you: Do I believe that the Bible teaches that God has ordained EVERYTHING that has and that will take place over time?

I tell you - emphatically -

then you are SERIOUSLY DELUDED, and DO NOT know the God of the Holy Bible!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

@Earth Wind and Fire You want to know if I see the Biblical scenario as being that the creature has absolutely no free will? Here is my answer:

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ABUSE and MISUSE of Scriptures!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Where does God do double predestination in His word?

He does NOT even do SINGLE PREDESTINATION ANYWHERE in the ENTIRE 66 Books of the Holy Bible!

This is "Reformed, UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH"!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

SHOW WHERE it says in this entire passage, ANYTHING about "predestined to salvation"

You are TWISTING the Word of God and you WILL FAIL!

 

[SavedByGrace]

When I share verses from God's Word, the Bible, you accuse me of cherry-picking.

you mean TWIST God's Word for your WARPED, UNBIBLICAL theology!

 

[KenH]

He does NOT even do SINGLE PREDESTINATION ANYWHERE in the ENTIRE 66 Books of the Holy Bible!

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

(emphasis mine)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

(emphasis mine)

Why did not not quote verse 29, which shows the PURPOSE of this "predestination"?

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son"

"TO BECOME CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON" Period!

God has DETERMINED those who are saved because they REPENTED of their sins and BELIEVED on Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord, to BECOME LIKE JESUS CHRIST!

EXACTLY as it says in Ephesians 1:5, "He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will". "PREDESTINED...TO BE ADOPTED". To become CHILDREN of God!

STOP ADDING to what God says!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Okie Dokie. Let me be clear for you: Do I believe that the Bible teaches that God has ordained EVERYTHING that has and that will take place over time?

I tell you - emphatically -

Typical escape type from a mental ward

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Since @Silverhair accused me of cherry-picking, I am sharing this article which is a much more thorough defense of the absolute total sovereignty of God as revealed in God's Word, the Bible.

"First, I would like to present a totally Biblical argument for the supralapsarian position. Second, I will desperately try to not use any extra-biblical logic since this has aroused so many infralapsarians.
...
The first and foremost part of my proposition is that God is intrinsically holy. This holiness cannot be changed nor does it have an end or a beginning. The second part of my proposition is that God, in His holiness, has an immutable decree for all events in time and outside of time. This decree is as immutable and eternal as His holiness. This decree providentially permeates, and by God's infinite power is the causal factor of, every facet of all events in time and outside of time.

The third but less significant part of my proposition is that the knowledge of the supralapsarian position is an extremely important part of the Christian life and the worship of God. Within this part of the proposition we should note that we are strongly admonished through examples and commands in Scripture to praise God for the good and the bad that He brings. Ultimately this is because they all work together for good to them that love God and are the called according to His purpose. Therefore, I assert that the active, ineffable power of God over good and evil, righteousness and sin, to fulfill His decree, is to be praised by the Christian. God's power is not merely an attribute."

- rest at Supralapsarianism and Its Practical Implications - Ward Fenley (pristinegrace.org)

All right then, let me pose a question to you regarding your present religious convictions: Q, ‘Do the children of unbelievers dying in infancy, are they damned to hell?’

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He does NOT even do SINGLE PREDESTINATION ANYWHERE in the ENTIRE 66 Books of the Holy Bible!

This is "Reformed, UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH"!

What type of Reformed are you referring to… like Presbyterian Reformed, Dutch Reformed, Reformed Baptist, Sovereign Grace Reformed … please pinpoint what reformed you are discussing because I want to get to the heart of the matter. My wife is Dutch Reformed and they never taught her Absolute Predestination. I don’t see it in Primitive Baptists though there are Absoluters groups that have sprung up from time to time. I’ve experienced some AP people amongst the Orthodox Presbyterians where they will resign infants to being automatic reprobates…ie destined to hell (which I deplore). This in short is a black or white theology as I see it and a puppet master & puppet on the string believers view of God and it’s all skewed to eternity (someone for heaven & someone for hell). There is no Conditional Temporal Salvation here at all… here babies are thrown in a the fire pit of hell and are labeled as reprobates. People who backslide were really reprobates all along, a fox that farts in the deep woods was preprogrammed to fart at the assigned time. A programmers delight to be sure! .

 

[KenH]

All right then, let me pose a question to you regarding your present religious convictions: Q, ‘Do the children of unbelievers dying in infancy, are they damned to hell?’

I do not know. As we humans say, "It's above my paygrade." Just as I do not know when a human being becomes a living soul. The closest, as far as I know, that the Bible comes is Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. This verse is used by some people to say that a body has a soul at the moment of first breath outside of the mother's womb. Now I don't know if they are correct or not, because I really don't know at what particular moment a body has a soul.

So, I do not know who the elect are at any age, including infants of believers or unbelievers. All this poor old vile sinner can do is hear or read what someone says they believe as far as the gospel of Christ is concerned - salvation by God's free sovereign grace in Christ alone - and if they believe the gospel of Christ as revealed in God's Word, the Bible, then I accept them as a fellow believer.

Now, to anyone who reads this post, please don't go further by asking me about any particular person on this board or elsewhere, as I am not going to play that game. Also, it is forbidden by the rules of Baptist Board to question the salvation of a fellow poster publicly in discussions on this board.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Supralapasarian = UNBIBLICAL, HUAMN HERESY!!!

in fact, it is one of the HIGHEST BLASPHEMIES!!! and must be CONDEMNED as from the DEVIL HIMSELF!!!

Of course it’s a tactic to get the regenerated Christian to either adopt or reject it. If it’s adopted by someone who considers themselves elect , then they are sitting pretty aren’t they? Given that the only alternative is to be recognized as a reprobate destined to hell! And here is another mandate, one rarely factored into the equation, you’re a person who backslides… that means your on the road to perdition and marks you a faker and a reprobate. In short, there is no flexibility in the system… so don’t say your sorry, don’t try to reform, we saw you and you are a reprobate.

Seriously why would you choose to believe that you are fixed from eternity to be heaven or hell bound… there is no Father’s love attached to that scenario. And remember this, even if you were able to live a sinless life in Christs pattern, if you were labeled a reprobate you still would be destined for hell in that Absolute Predestination doctrine.

 

[KenH]

there is no Father’s love attached to that scenario

God shows His love to His elect in that He could have chosen none.

you’re a person who backslides

God preserves His elect. They do not preserve themselves. Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

if you were able to live a sinless life in Christs pattern

The only mere human who had that opportunity was Adam and he failed to do. Everyone after Adam was born, as we humans say, behind the eight ball. And even if Adam had succeeded, he still would have had only creature righteousness, and not the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I do not know. As we humans say, "It's above my paygrade." Just as I do not know when a human being becomes a living soul. The closest, as far as I know, that the Bible comes is Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. This verse is used by some people to say that a body has a soul at the moment of first breath outside of the mother's womb. Now I don't know if they are correct or not, because I really don't know at what particular moment a body has a soul.

So, I do not know who the elect are at any age, including infants of believers or unbelievers. All this poor old vile sinner can do is hear or read what someone says they believe as far as the gospel of Christ is concerned - salvation by God's free sovereign grace in Christ alone - and if they believe the gospel of Christ as revealed in God's Word, the Bible, then I accept them as a fellow believer.

Now, to anyone who reads this post, please don't go further by asking me about any particular person on this board or elsewhere, as I am not going to play that game. Also, it is forbidden by the rules of Baptist Board to question the salvation of a fellow poster publicly in discussions on this board.

That’s a fair answer brother, but that is just what happened to me when I innocently asked the question to a Senior Elder of a Orthodox Presbyterian Church, who deferred it to the Senior Elder Pastor who informed me my child was in hell and I put him there, all because I wasn’t a part of that church movement at that time of infants death. And I’m not mentioning any names so fear not just that it happened over 40 years ago (seems like yesterday as all traumatic things do) and it had long lasting effects on my wife who couldn’t believe a Reformed man of God could support such teachings. Luckily that man and his senior elder are out of the pulpit and dead so thank heavens they are elect ( while my dear infant child languishes in hell). And that was my first and Last exposure to High Calvinism. Quite a story wouldn’t you say… and that’s why I like these conversations for they expose false doctrines. I hope people learn from that true life experience. Lord be praised.

 

[KenH]

the Senior Elder Pastor who informed me my child was in hell

I am sorry to hear that any person, with a fancy title or not, would tell you that.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

God shows His love to His elect in that He could have chosen none.



God preserves His elect. They do not preserve themselves. Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.



The only mere human who had that opportunity was Adam and he failed to do. Everyone after Adam was born, as we humans say, behind the eight ball. And even if Adam had succeeded, he still would have had only creature righteousness, and not the righteousness of Christ.

I am a Primitive Baptist, I restlessly study the scriptures (from cover to cover) study & question, study & question, pray and contemplate). YOU ARE NOT TELLING ME ANYTHING I DONT KNOW! So let’s always cut to the chase. What possessed you to adopt Absolute Predestination?

 

[kyredneck]

then you are SERIOUSLY DELUDED, and DO NOT know the God of the Holy Bible!!!

He does NOT even do SINGLE PREDESTINATION ANYWHERE in the ENTIRE 66 Books of the Holy Bible!

This is "Reformed, UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH"!

...you need to go take a pill and calm down....