Supralapasarian "Hyper-Calvinism" Defended

[Silverhair]

Everything that God created is under God's control. The Bible is quite clear that God is always sovereign over His creation, and not just sometimes.

I am glad you agree @KenH. So what world did Christ come to save?

 

[KenH]

John Calvin on John 3:16


“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life” (emphasis mine)


lexical evidence on the use of “kósmos” used in John 3:16.

J H Thayer:

“the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race. Jn. i.10, 29, iii.16sq”

W F Arndt and F W Gingrich:

“of all mankind, but especially of believers as objects of God’s love”

J Parkhurst:

“the world, i.e., the whole race of mankind, both believers and unbelievers, both good and bad.”

E Robinson:

“the world for the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind. John.1.29, 3:16”

Hermann Cremer:

“It denotes the ordered entirety of God’s creation, humanity itself”

The NIV Theological Dictionary of New Testament Words:

“in Jn. kosmos almost always denotes the world of humans, esp. the world of sinful humanity that opposes God, resists the redeeming work of the Son, does not believe in Him”

G Kittel and G Friedrich:

“All the meanings of kosmos come together in the usage of the Fourth Gospel. Not just the Prologue uses kosmos for the world in the sense of the universe”

W E Vine:

“the human race, mankind”

A T Robertson:

The world (ton kosmon). The whole cosmos of men, including Gentiles, the whole human race. This universal aspect of God's love appears also in 2Co 5:19; Rom 5:8”

M Vincent:

“The sum-total of humanity in the world; the human race”


et gloria Dei est

If "he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world" means every human being that has lived and ever will live has been reconciled to God, then everyone will be living in the new heavens and earth. Such a teaching is similar to that of the universalists of various stripes.

 

[KenH]

So what world did Christ come to save?

Christ Jesus came to save those whom God chose them before the foundation of the world and gave to His Son to be their Surety, He fulfilled the law perfectly on their behalf, their sins were imputed to Him and He paid their sin debt at the cross, and His perfect righteousness was imputed to them. At some point in their lives, all of those whom God chose before the foundation of the world, are brought under the hearing of the gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit regenerates them, and as a result of the Holy Spirit regenerating them, God grants them the gifts of faith in Christ and repentance of dead works.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If "he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world" means every human being that has lived and ever will live has been reconciled to God, then everyone will be living in the new heavens and earth. Such a teaching is similar to that of the universalists of various stripes.

such is the utter RUBBISH that is used by the "Reformed"!

The Death of Jesus Christ on the Cross is Universal, but this does NOT mean that ALL will be automatically saved. Jesus has Himself placed "CONDITIONS" on this, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near. REPENT and BELIEVE in the good news!” (Mark 1:15). Without this, NO SINNER can ever be saved!

 

[KenH]

“Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race”

If John Calvin was including those who end up in Hell as part of "the whole human race", then he was wrong to do so.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Christ Jesus came to save those whom God chose them before the foundation of the world and gave to His Son to be their Surety, He fulfilled the law perfectly on their behalf, their sins were imputed to Him and He paid their sin debt at the cross, and His perfect righteousness was imputed to them. At some point in their lives, all of those whom God chose before the foundation of the world, are brought under the hearing of the gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit regenerates them, and as a result of the Holy Spirit regenerating them, God grants them the gifts of faith in Christ and repentance of dead works.

FALSE!

This is what the Bible says:

"This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS”—and I am the worst of them" - 1 Timothy 1:15

Not some sinners as the "Reformed" will try to make this, but ALL SINNERS!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

If John Calvin was including those who end up in Hell as part of "the whole human race", then he was wrong to do so.

YOU are the one who is VERY WRONG by your HATE "theology"!

 

[KenH]

Jesus has Himself placed "CONDITIONS" on this, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near. REPENT and BELIEVE in the good news!” (Mark 1:15). Without this, NO SINNER can ever be saved!

Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for those He came to save. Do God's elect come to the point of having repentance toward God and faith toward Christ" Yes! At some point in their lives, all of those whom God chose before the foundation of the world, are brought under the hearing of the gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit regenerates them, and as a result of the Holy Spirit regenerating them, God grants them the gifts of faith in Christ and repentance of dead works.

Acts of the Apostles 11:18 Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts of the Apostles 13:48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts of the Apostles 16:14 Whose heart the Lord opened.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

(emphasis mine)

As Jonah said, "Salvation is of the LORD." (Jonah 2:9)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for those He came to save. Do God's elect come to the point of having repentance toward God and faith toward Christ" Yes! At some point in their lives, all of those whom God chose before the foundation of the world, are brought under the hearing of the gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit regenerates them, and as a result of the Holy Spirit regenerating them, God grants them the gifts of faith in Christ and repentance of dead works.

Acts of the Apostles 11:18 Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts of the Apostles 13:48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts of the Apostles 16:14 Whose heart the Lord opened.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

(emphasis mine)

As Jonah said, "Salvation is of the LORD." (Jonah 2:9)

As I have said MANY times, John 3:16-18 DESTROYS the TULI in TULIP. and NO "Reformed" person will EVER be able to get around this Bible TRUTH!

 

[KenH]

FALSE!

This is what the Bible says:

"This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS”—and I am the worst of them" - 1 Timothy 1:15

Not some sinners as the "Reformed" will try to make this, but ALL SINNERS!!!

The verse does not have the word "all". God saving His elect is to save sinners, those whose sin debt Christ paid at the cross. Not one person for whom Christ died will be in Hell. To teach that anyone for whom Christ died will be in Hell is abominable.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The verse does not have the word "all". God saving His elect is to save sinners, those whose sin debt Christ paid at the cross. Not one person for whom Christ died will be in Hell. To teach that anyone for whom Christ died will be in Hell is abominable.

Is Judas in heaven or hell?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus Himself says that He Died for Judas!

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/jesus-christ-shed-his-blood-for-judas.129253/

 

[KenH]

The Bible teaches that "Salvation is of the Lord". (Jonah 2:9)

The Bible DOES NOT teach that "Salvation is of the Lord, and man cooperating with God, and letting God save him, after that man proves that he has jumped through enough hoops(the number of hoops varies from denomination to denomination and preacher to preacher), to prove that he is not as bad and awful as another group of human beings that God is not going to save because they, the creation, won't cooperate with their Creator, even though the desire of the Creator is the save them."

One has to wonder what the Conditionalists think makes the difference between the them and others who they say are not saved - were they smarter, or wiser, or "luckier", maybe just through random events they ended up in the right place at the right time compared to others who, instead, were born and live in very unfavorable random circumstances compared to the Conditionalists.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The Bible teaches that "Salvation is of the Lord". (Jonah 2:9)

The Bible DOES NOT teach that "Salvation is of the Lord, and man cooperating with God, and letting God save him, after that man proves that he has jumped through enough hoops(the number of hoops varies from denomination to denomination and preacher to preacher), to prove that he is not as bad and awful as another group of human beings that God is not going to save because they, the creation, won't cooperate with their Creator, even though the desire of the Creator is the save them."

One has to wonder what the Conditionalists think makes the difference between the them and others who they say are not saved - were they smarter, or wiser, or "luckier", maybe just through random events they ended up in the right place at the right time compared to others who, instead, were born and live in very unfavorable random circumstances compared to the Conditionalists.

Salvation, according of Jesus Christ, Who is THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY, is very much CONDITIONAL.

ALL sinners must first REPENT of their Sins and BELIEVE in the Gospel about Jesus Christ. This is clear from Jesus' start of His earthly Ministry, as is seen in Mark 1:15; and the end of His Ministry, as is clear in Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem". Which is what Peter told those who had been "cut to the heart" after hearing his message in Acts 2, and asked him, "what must we DO?" (verse 37). Peter does not say, "you DO nothing", but, "And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

 

[Silverhair]

If "he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world" means every human being that has lived and ever will live has been reconciled to God, then everyone will be living in the new heavens and earth. Such a teaching is similar to that of the universalists of various stripes.

I know that the Bible teaches:
God loves everyone,
God desires all to be saved,
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and
we are free to accept or reject the gift of eternal life by acknowledging or dismissing what Christ has done for us.

While reconciliation is universal salvation is not. Reconciliation touches the whole human race. Salvation is limited to the few who believe, for salvation depends on faith and belief.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!

A person may stand before God with every sin covered by the blood of the Son, but if he is still in Adam then death rules over him and there is no hope of resurrection.

When 1Jn_2:2 tells me that Christ died for the sins of all that is what it means to me. The death of the Son made it possible for all to be saved because the Father viewed the sins of all covered. So from His perspective all were reconciled to Him, His wrath had been averted, but man has to accept and trust in the Son before they are saved. From the perspective of man He is only reconciled with the Father when he trusts in the Son.

 

[KenH]

Is Judas in heaven or hell?

For a general answer, see my post #34 earlier in this thread.

As for Judas, he was called "the son of perdition". (John 17:12)

 

[KenH]

God desires all to be saved,

Sounds like you are saying that God is a failure:

"By carelessness in Bible study on the part of many -- and evident wresting of the Scriptures on the part of some -- many professing Christians now claim to worship a god who is a failure! Often these people slander the Bible by saying it contains two contradictory lines of teaching which cannot be reconciled. They may claim to believe in a sovereign God, but at the same time think mankind has a "free will" by which he can resist God and hinder His working. Thus, they take the Thomist/Arminian view and promote free-willism. (Nowhere does the Bible teach that man's will is free from his depraved nature!)

This free will system of doctrine sets forth a god who is a wimp. He loves everybody (in spite of clear Bible teaching that God has set His love only on His elect people). The god of this theological system is trying to save everybody, but cannot because they will not let him. Therefore this god is a failure!

Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.

As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]."

- excerpt from Is God a Failure? (libcfl.com)

 

[Silverhair]

The Bible teaches that "Salvation is of the Lord". (Jonah 2:9)

The Bible DOES NOT teach that "Salvation is of the Lord, and man cooperating with God, and letting God save him, after that man proves that he has jumped through enough hoops(the number of hoops varies from denomination to denomination and preacher to preacher), to prove that he is not as bad and awful as another group of human beings that God is not going to save because they, the creation, won't cooperate with their Creator, even though the desire of the Creator is the save them."

One has to wonder what the Conditionalists think makes the difference between the them and others who they say are not saved - were they smarter, or wiser, or "luckier", maybe just through random events they ended up in the right place at the right time compared to others who, instead, were born and live in very unfavorable random circumstances compared to the Conditionalists.

Actually the bible is chock full of God requiring man to do something, believe in His son
Rom 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—
Act 16:31 ... “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,
Rom 3:26 He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus

I could give you more but I am sure you get the picture. So yes God has set a condition for salvation, faith in His risen son. Trust the gospel message:
Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek.

Why do determinists struggle so hard with just accepting these truths of God's word?

What the determinist has to answer is why did God pick you? Were you smarter or just lucky. The bible states that God wants all to be saved but most are not so was God just being disingenuous or was He unable to bring all to salvation?

How does the determinist actually know if they are one of the chosen few. They have nothing to base their salvation on except there hope that they were in fact chosen.

 

[Silverhair]

Sounds like you are saying that God is a failure:

"By carelessness in Bible study on the part of many -- and evident wresting of the Scriptures on the part of some -- many professing Christians now claim to worship a god who is a failure! Often these people slander the Bible by saying it contains two contradictory lines of teaching which cannot be reconciled. They may claim to believe in a sovereign God, but at the same time think mankind has a "free will" by which he can resist God and hinder His working. Thus, they take the Thomist/Arminian view and promote free-willism. (Nowhere does the Bible teach that man's will is free from his depraved nature!)

This free will system of doctrine sets forth a god who is a wimp. He loves everybody (in spite of clear Bible teaching that God has set His love only on His elect people). The god of this theological system is trying to save everybody, but cannot because they will not let him. Therefore this god is a failure!

Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.

As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]."

- excerpt from Is God a Failure? (libcfl.com)

Your post show that you actually do not believe the Holy Spirit inspired word of God.

This is what God desires for His creation
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

This is the means He has provided
Rom 1:16...the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So God is not a failure but man fails to trust in the only means of salvation.

The reality is that determinist is a failure as you have no biblical support for your errant views. You are trusting in man-made philosophy based on pagan teachings.

 

[KenH]

What the determinist has to answer is why did God pick you?

And the answer is: God loves the His elect because He loves His elect. (Deuteronomy 7:7-8)

Just as God loved ancient Israel because He loved them, and not that they met some condition(such as being more in number than other peoples), God loves His elect(His chosen) because He loved them and gave them to His Son to be their Surety, not because they met some condition.

 

[SavedByGrace]

For a general answer, see my post #34 earlier in this thread.

As for Judas, he was called "the son of perdition". (John 17:12)

Judas very sadly is in eternal punishment

However it is very clear that Jesus Christ Died for him!