Featured Unable to Believe the “Foolish” Gospel

@ChristB4Us

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, and one receives the Spirit when they are born of the Spirit in regeneration.

 

Dave I agree with most of this, but I dont believe the new birth comes as a result of the preaching of the Gospel, but that its soley a work of the Spirit alone, but the Gospel brings it forth in a conversion experience 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Please see section 4 of Best writings from here

http://72.219.6.125:81/FTP_Root/W-E-Best/Life Brought To Light by W.E.Best.pdf

 

AMEN!

AMEN!

The gospel is the message, NOT the means.

 

....which He gives [to the elect] through the Spirit. If one believes, it's because at some point prior they were born of the Spirit.

10 But unto us God revealed [them] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God.
12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual [words].
14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2

 

When God saves a person He then gives the Faith to believe, thats the only way to believe, God must save us first.

 

Regardless of the theology, there is a level where man interacts with God. It is at that level a man is told to believe. Men are not required to question whether they have been regenerated, or to understand that they have been born again, but to immediately believe. Men are not even required to question whether they have faith or not, but to actually believe.

It's one thing to say that without a work of the Spirit, men can't savingly believe the gospel. But while it's true that absolution and the pardon of sin is the foundation of all communication of saving grace to the soul and therefore logically had to be there - it's also true that this is received by faith, which is how the person is made partaker of it. So you probably receive the ability to and immediately believe upon being regenerated but arguing timewise the order is probably of no purpose. That is why Owen and other Calvinists would say they won't argue the precise order of this.

I tend to think that the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit is necessary and therefore decisive but I don't think a person is actually saved without any interaction between their soul and God. In other words the enlightenment is necessary but can be resisted, and regeneration does not precede faith.

 

Those who God in His eternal counsels appointed to disobedience to the word, they cannot and are unable to believe or obey the Gospel 1 Pet 2:8

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Their active being disobedient was passively appointed

 

A person doesnt get saved because they believe, as many falsely teach, but a person believes because he or she is already saved. As many as had been ordained/destined to eternal life believed Acts 13:48

And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).AMPC

This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord. CEV

 

I think it goes too far to say that one is saved first and then believes. The quoted statements above for example only have God "appointing" something to happen. Yes, when God appoints something to happen it will happen for sure but it has not happened until it happens. And what is it that "happens"? You believe. And whether you are a Calvinist or PB or Arminian or complete free willer your faith is how you as a human connects to this and by the same token, whether you believe faith is something you decide to to yourself or whether you believe it is wrought in you by God it is something done "on your part". No one believes for you.

 

The other thing is, if you think about it, everyone who is a Christian must have some self awareness that they are a Christian. If it is true that we are elected and saved and that belief is then the result or response the question still comes up for a person who asks, what should I do because I am concerned about my condition. You tell them to believe. You don't tell them that their asking you that shows they are elect and thus already saved so don't worry. You tell them to believe because even if you are a staunch Calvinist faith is the link that a rational being must have in order to have anything to do with God. And this is something you can be conscious of if present. It is required of you. If you call it a gift in the sense of God giving you the ability then fine. If you believe God brings it about in you that is also fine. But you have to believe that faith is what you do to connect to God. Anything else is a misunderstanding and can lead to a false gospel where you can have a type of faith in your election rather than a direct reliance on Christ and his work on your behalf.

@ChristB4Us nailed it in these two statements. It is the argument John Owen gives when he says not to worry too much about the order in time of salvation. You are receiving what has been done for you yet you must receive it in order for it to be done for you. And as Owen said, at this point you are not interested in whether you are elect, you need to believe.

 

....which He gives [to the elect] through the Spirit. If one believes, it's because at some point prior they were born of the Spirit.

10 But unto us God revealed [them] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God.
12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual [words].
14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2

 

Nonsense. One to know anything, one has to have faith to know a thing.

 

Doubts can come in a believer's life for why they want to know if they are truly saved.

Like when under that commitment to follow Christ or a promise to not sin ever again, the saved believer is failing only because Jesus did not place confidence in our flesh to accomplish His work by the deed of the law. The Lord Jesus Christ had to make me aware of my vanity & foolishness to forgive me and set me free from all man made yokes of bondages to rest in Him as my Good Shepherd & Friend to help me resists sin and to follow Him daily in thought, word, and deed. Galatians 5:1-5 & Philippians 1:6-11 & John 6:28-29 & 1 John 3:3,8 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25

Saved believers wresting with habitual sins would doubt they are saved when they cannot seem to overcome that sin and that is only because they are not looking to Jesus Christ to do that for them in helping them put away provisions for the flesh, and cast down wicked thoughts & desires to think on good things daily in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ Hebrews 12:1-2.

Like when others are deceived into thinking they need proof or a sign that they had received the Holy Spirit when He has been received by faith in Jesus Christ. Even newbies are led astray after believing the preaching of the cross from when they were saved, but because of other led astray Christians like the Pentecostals & Charismatics and yes, even Catholics along with Protestants can experience such a phenomenon... even among independent fundamental Baptist churches where they seek to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues or with :"evidence of tongues". It is an apostate calling Matthew 12:38-40 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 1 John 4:1-6 that denies Him as having been received by faith in Jesus Christ Hebrews 11:1-2 & Galatians 3:14 & Galatians 3:26

It is no wonder who those that glory in themselves for having "tongues for private use" in assigning one of the benefits of this is the Holy Spirit praying for them out oud and so they wonder why the Holy Spirit is not praying for them? So doubt can arise when believers are not grounded in the word to recognize that God's gift of tongues is for God to speak unto the people 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 and not serve as a sign towards the believers for anything, let alone as proof as having received that baptism with the Holy Spirit especially when in all Bible versions in John 16:13, the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself at all but speaks only what He hears.

So... there are plenty of causes for why saved believer can have doubts, but that is why we are to be rooted in His words to know that we are complete in Christ and we can follow Him by faith in Jesus Christ to help us to follow Him daily.\

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

I dare say that our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of God for why no sign nor proof is needed. John 3:18-21

Anybody having trouble following Jesus, should learn His words for how He will help you to follow Him by trusting Him at His word that He is able to set you free from sin's power whereby it will not have dominion over us 1 John 2:1-2 & 1 John 1:3-9 & John 8:30-36 & 1 John 3:3 & 1 John 3:8 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25

 

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost so they cant believe 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
A lost person doesnt have Faith so they believe not.

 

I'm curious too and would like to see if anyone can answer this directly.