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The Heresy of Cessaitionism
- Thread starter Deadworm
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During the Great Awakening, George Whitefield was preaching outdoors to thousands in an open field. A curious skeptic climbed a tree to get a btter view, but put his hands over his ears to avoid the message. But when he was harassed by a swarm of flies, he was forced to bat them away.
In the process, he heard the Gospel and was gloriously saved. That man symbolizes posters here who care so little abouit biblical truth that they refuse to watch the OP video's biblical refutation of the 5 key points of modern cessationism. So I guess I need to play the role of the swarm of flies to entice Baptists here into honest and open dialogue based on intellectual integrity.
In the process, he heard the Gospel and was gloriously saved. That man symbolizes posters here who care so little abouit biblical truth that they refuse to watch the OP video's biblical refutation of the 5 key points of modern cessationism. So I guess I need to play the role of the swarm of flies to entice Baptists here into honest and open dialogue based on intellectual integrity.
This video refutes 5 of the standard arguments for cessationism:
youtube critique of cessationism - Search Videos
www.bing.com
This thread will then elaborate on the grounds for continationism, a doctrine that is vital for acknowledging and promoting the work of the Holy Spirit in our era.
It boils down to what Paul meant by "when that which is perfects is come."
1 Cor. 13:10-12
"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
According to the Pentecostals "that which is perfect" is the resurrection, and the gifts will no longer be needed.
According to others "that which is perfect" is the fulfillment of the full canon of Scripture.
Paul said in 13:8 that prophecies will fail, tongues shall cease, and knowledge shall vanish away.
The knowledge that Paul speaks of in not knowledge of Scripture or general knowledge, but the gift of or the Word of Knowledge.
So the gifts will come an end "when that which is perfect is come."
I believe it to be that the gifts ended at the time the NT Scripture was made available to all the Churches.
And the latter unsubstantiated interpretation is ghastly nonsense accepted b;y no modern academic commentary on 1 Corinthians.
And of course, the OP video demonstrates this error in great detail, but posters here are, as expected, far too lazy and indifferent to the truth to hear his detailed exegetical refutation.
It’s not an ignorance problem they have, it’s a faith problem.
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It is a disagreement on the teachings. James 1:17. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12.
There are only 4 of the 9 gifts that Paul said would come to an end. The rest are active and I will agree with that.
There is no need today for prophecies that has been fulfilled in the completion of the Scripture.
There is no need for tongues or the interpretation of tongues, it served its purpose until the Scripture came.
There is no need for the gift of the Word of Knowledge today, God speaks to us in His completed Word.
If your starting point is that it is impossible today, then already it is a lack of Faith that is the problem.
Self is the biggest enemy of the gifts.
It is Jesus in us that has all the gifts.
“ Without me you can do nothing “
Our greatest battle is to drive out Self so that it is Jesus expressing, saying and doing.
“ It is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives in me “
This is the difference between Jesus on page and Jesus in the heart.
Many believers know Jesus on the page, but do not see through His eyes, or think as He thinks, they have not put on the mind of Christ.
Only by having the mind of Christ do we live life to the full, because only Jesus can appreciate life in it’s fullness in us.
Jesus gives us the knowledge, understanding, gifts and power as He lives and acts through us, it infuses us, He infuses us.
This is why the gifts never left the Church, because Jesus never left the Church.
Most of the time the argument is over tongues, some folks love their tongues, ain't gonna give 'em up.
Are you a tongue speaking Catholic, Cathode?
I have the gifts Jesus decides to do through me, and as such, have all the gifts according to His pleasure to do.
There is no limit to the gifts in reality if Jesus is sovereignly acting, because there is no limit to Jesus.
How generous are you?
How much of self can you deny?
This is the extent Jesus can express through you.
There is a great difference between self and Jesus. You can see the difference in yourself and other people whether it’s expression of Jesus or self.
How do we get rid of self so that only Jesus remains?
“ Deny yourself, take up your cross, and come follow me “
First thing is to keep denying and handing over our human will and asking for God’s Divine will to remain in us and guide us. The human will is the heart of Self.
This is the most powerful way we can deny ourselves, and it requires perseverance.
We must take up our Cross daily, which means we must accept The Will of The Father completely, persisting in His love and teaching and circumstances.
Self sees God’s Will as a Cross, The sufferings we endure as life unfolds is all a loving, permitted gift from The Father, because by these self is crucified and dies.
Self eventually dies and Christ remains.
This doesn’t mean your personality is destroyed, it means that Jesus fully expresses through your personality, through your whole being unhindered. He is the Person whom all personhood and personality comes from anyway, we share a portion of His personality from all time and eternity.
It is Jesus that heals and does wonders through us.
He has all the Gifts.
I didn't ask for that Catholic ramble, I asked if you speak in tongues?
Are you one of those Catholic Charismatics.
I’m not giving you “ Catholic ramble “ I’m sharing a pearl of my spiritual experience, which seems to be completely wasted on you.
You can not seem to appreciate what I am saying here.
Tongues specifically, no.
Yes, but not probably in the sense you understand it with the Protestant/ Pentecostal example you might have seen.
There you go, that's what I was looking for.
I 've met a few, very few that see it that way, not to say there's not many more.
I can see where those spiritual experiences would fall right in line with the Catholic agenda.
All those ceremonies, and drawn out repetitions, the smoke floating everywhere in the air.
Kinda majestic isn't it? I can see where the spirit could be carried away.
Our worship imitates the worship in Revelation, with ceremonies, repetitions and incense, altars, sacred vessels, and vestments.
I don’t see how this is relevant however to the conversation we were having.
I guess it's not relevant to the conversation.
It reminds me of the Baal worshiping that Elijah contended with on the mountain.
It doesn’t remind you of the worship in Revelation or the Israelites worship in the Temple?
This is how God is rightly worshipped by the Israelites and the Church in Revelation.
Because it is completely alien to your worship, you have to denigrate it by likening it to Baal worship. You don’t have a reference to it in your worship.
We don’t have TED talks in our worship, but at least incense is Scripturally used in the genuine worship of God.
It doesn’t remind you of the worship in Revelation or the Israelites worship in the Temple?
This is how God is rightly worshipped by the Israelites and the Church in Revelation.
Because it is completely alien to your worship, you have to denigrate it by likening it to Baal worship. You don’t have a reference to it in your worship.
We don’t have TED talks in our worship, but at least incense is Scripturally used in the genuine worship of God.
No it does not, Cathode! The old temple of Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ.
Paul tells us the NT temple is the body of the believer, not some spectacle performed by mumbling confused men.
But this type of side show suits false worship and denies the power of the risen Christ.
The RCC doesn't want to come into the NT in Christ, they want to stay in the Law, observing the Law with their many ceremonies.
Rather than grace, they place everything under a Law made by the Church leaders.
"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne." - Revelation 8:3
I think you are showing no small ignorance here mate.
These are not mumbling confused men.
What you are seeing is the genuine worship of God for the first time.
Incense is the sign of our prayer intentions rising to God.
The Church of the Old Covenant did this and the Church of the New Covenant does this in Revelation.
Catholics burn “ much incense “ symbolising our prayer offering to God. Thousands of tons of it is burnt world wide before Jesus Altar and Tabernacle Throne.
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