Authentic Interpretation

[Silverhair]

Anyone who reads 1John should be well aware that he is not advocating sinless perfection.
You have to acknowledge what the reason they cannot sin is.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
This is clearly talking about the seed of Christ. It means that when your sins were forgiven they were all forgiven and you stay saved because you are born of God. The power of the blood of Christ is such that where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
In no way am I advocating that we frustrate the grace of God.
Shall we continue in sin that grace abound? God forbid!

But you have not addressed any of the various verses that warn of falling away from the faith that saved you.

Do you think that God will force people to be with Him that do not want to be with Him?

 

[Silverhair]

Yet another post vilifying me, rather than addressing Acts 13:48.

Really Van you are not that important that I would spend my time vilifying you. But I will point out your errors.

 

[JesusFan]

But you have not addressed any of the various verses that warn of falling away from the faith that saved you.

Do you think that God will force people to be with Him that do not want to be with Him?

God grants to the saved a regenerated heart and new nature, so that new person in Christ will desire to love and honor Jesus, but still have ole fresh nature that seeks to not be doing that still, but nothing that we can do can break the sealing of the Holy Spirit

 

[Ben1445]

But you have not addressed any of the various verses that warn of falling away from the faith that saved you.

Do you think that God will force people to be with Him that do not want to be with Him?

If they didn’t want to be with Him, they would not be saved. There will be lots of people who want the culture of Christianity and make claim to things that are incredible.
Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

But instead of saying you turned back from me, I don’t know you anymore, He said I never knew you.

If Scripture doesn’t teach losing salvation, I don’t think it necessary that OSAS be taught every time the NT writers addressed backsliding Christians in the churches.
Seeing rather that John teaches that someone who is saved is not attributed sin when the Holy Spirit dwells in them, I view any Scripture that reprimands believers for their behavior as addressing the backsliding rather than the recently made a child of hell.

 

[Silverhair]

God grants to the saved a regenerated heart and new nature, so that new person in Christ will desire to love and honor Jesus, but still have ole fresh nature that seeks to not be doing that still, but nothing that we can do can break the sealing of the Holy Spirit

That is your view but what do you do with the verses that disagree with your view?

 

[Silverhair]

If they didn’t want to be with Him, they would not be saved. There will be lots of people who want the culture of Christianity and make claim to things that are incredible.
Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

But instead of saying you turned back from me, I don’t know you anymore, He said I never knew you.

If Scripture doesn’t teach losing salvation, I don’t think it necessary that OSAS be taught every time the NT writers addressed backsliding Christians in the churches.
Seeing rather that John teaches that someone who is saved is not attributed sin when the Holy Spirit dwells in them, I view any Scripture that reprimands believers for their behavior as addressing the backsliding rather than the recently made a child of hell.

Then you need to actually address the verses that say man does fall away.

The OSAS theory is dangerous as it can lead people to think their lifestyle does not matter, they have their ticket.

God will keep those that continue to believe but does not force them to continue to believe.

That is the problem that you are not looking at.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart G868 (G5695) from the faith G4102, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, {G868 to fall away, become faithless}

Realize that one can not fall away from something they do not believe.

 

[JesusFan]

That is your view but what do you do with the verses that disagree with your view?

Such as?

 

[JesusFan]

Then you need to actually address the verses that say man does fall away.

The OSAS theory is dangerous as it can lead people to think their lifestyle does not matter, they have their ticket.

God will keep those that continue to believe but does not force them to continue to believe.

That is the problem that you are not looking at.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart G868 (G5695) from the faith G4102, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, {G868 to fall away, become faithless}

Realize that one can not fall away from something they do not believe.

MUST accept the truth as Jesus told us plainly, that ALL whom the Father gives unto Him shall never perish, as he will raise them up on the last day period

 

[Silverhair]

Such as?

1Ti_4:1, Heb_6:4-6, 2Pe_2:20, 2Th_2:3, Heb_10:38-39, 1Th_3:8, 2Pe_1:10

As these verses show some men will follow false teachings and thus fall, some for a season others to their destruction. We as Christians must always be on guard and hold fast to the truth. We are secure in Christ as long as we remain in Christ thru faith. Col_1:21-23

As long as you have the desire and will to remain in the faith of Christ, you are being saved. Even when, not if, you sin and then fall under conviction that's the Holy Spirit working in you. If you worry about your salvation, then the Spirit is still working in you. It is when a person becomes deaf or insensitive to the prompting of the Spirit that salvation can be said to have been forsaken, not by God but by the person.

 

[Silverhair]

MUST accept the truth as Jesus told us plainly, that ALL whom the Father gives unto Him shall never perish, as he will raise them up on the last day period

Those that believe, unless you think He is going to force non believers into heaven?

I actually believe all that God has told us. Which also includes the fact that some will fall away from the faith

 

[Ben1445]

Then you need to actually address the verses that say man does fall away.

What I read in that passage is Paul telling Timothy that there are going to be people who have strange doctrines, seducing spirits. He tells Timothy to remind the brethren about false teachings and teach them good doctrine so that they won’t be running around teaching some strange doctrine about the Holy Spirit. So when they hear someone teaching false doctrine, they will recognize it for what it is and reject it. I have seen Christians get off on a tangent and become distracted and unprofitable in ministry. I don’t see where God takes salvation away from them.

The OSAS theory is dangerous as it can lead people to think their lifestyle does not matter, they have their ticket.

Not true. God is judge. It is not our job to be the Holy Spirit to everyone.
My goal is to say with Paul, “Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.”

God will keep those that continue to believe but does not force them to continue to believe.

It is evident that believers can be distracted.
1 Cor. 5
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Paul doesn’t say he lost his salvation. He said kick him out of the church. Then he recognized that his spirit and flesh have different destinations.

That is the problem that you are not looking at.

I am looking at it. I, and many others, disagree with your interpretation of it.
I have known OSAS people my whole life. Very few of them were Calvinist or Reformed.
It is not a doctrine exclusive to the reformed.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart G868 (G5695) from the faith G4102, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, {G868 to fall away, become faithless}

Realize that one can not fall away from something they do not believe.

If my children fall away from their relationship with me, they are no less my children and I am no less their father. We would have a strained relationship and they would be in trouble. I would do anything right to see them return. Because when they are born into my family, they are my family. When we are born of God, sin is not imputed.
Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Since I am no longer under the law. Sin is no longer imputed to me.

 

[Ben1445]

I have known some TULIP defenders to hold the same position as yours, Silverhair, though I’ve no doubt it would still be argued out. I have heard it explained that if the saints don’t persevere, they are not the elect. You can slice it several ways and look at it from different perspectives but ultimately, if you have to rely on your own works to be saved, you are working for your salvation, and trying to merit the grace of God.

 

[Silverhair]

What I read in that passage is Paul telling Timothy that there are going to be people who have strange doctrines, seducing spirits. He tells Timothy to remind the brethren about false teachings and teach them good doctrine so that they won’t be running around teaching some strange doctrine about the Holy Spirit. So when they hear someone teaching false doctrine, they will recognize it for what it is and reject it. I have seen Christians get off on a tangent and become distracted and unprofitable in ministry. I don’t see where God takes salvation away from them.

Not true. God is judge. It is not our job to be the Holy Spirit to everyone.
My goal is to say with Paul, “Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.”


It is evident that believers can be distracted.
1 Cor. 5
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Paul doesn’t say he lost his salvation. He said kick him out of the church. Then he recognized that his spirit and flesh have different destinations.

I am looking at it. I, and many others, disagree with your interpretation of it.
I have known OSAS people my whole life. Very few of them were Calvinist or Reformed.
It is not a doctrine exclusive to the reformed.

If my children fall away from their relationship with me, they are no less my children and I am no less their father. We would have a strained relationship and they would be in trouble. I would do anything right to see them return. Because when they are born into my family, they are my family. When we are born of God, sin is not imputed.
Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Since I am no longer under the law. Sin is no longer imputed to me.

I see it one way you see it another. But since we cannot see what God does we will have to leave it at that.

 

[Van]

Really Van you are not that important that I would spend my time vilifying you. But I will point out your errors.

Note the personal attack, devoid of any on topic content.

 

[Silverhair]

I have known some TULIP defenders to hold the same position as yours, Silverhair, though I’ve no doubt it would still be argued out. I have heard it explained that if the saints don’t persevere, they are not the elect. You can slice it several ways and look at it from different perspectives but ultimately, if you have to rely on your own works to be saved, you are working for your salvation, and trying to merit the grace of God.

I agree we do not work for our salvation but we do have to continue to believe and we know people have chosen to abandon the faith.

Joshua Harris, author of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," and former pastor of a mega-church in Maryland, renounced his faith, saying: "I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. ...By all the measurements I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian."

Dave Gass, the former pastor at Grace Family Fellowship, pastor at Covenant Church and Cedar Community Church, took to social media and announced: "After 40 years of being a devout follower, 20 of those being an evangelical pastor, I am walking away from the faith.

What about high-profile Christians who renounced their faith?

It s more than disturbing lately to hear of so many prominent Christian personalities turning from the faith It seems as though it s becoming a regular occurrence To read their statements explaining

www.christianpost.com

Rebecca Gummere
Increasingly, though, I struggled with doubt — about God’s presence, about God’s trustworthiness, about the meaning of the Church in the world and the truth of its foundational tenets.
After I’d deconstructed my whole belief system — the creeds and the Bible stories and the church teachings and traditions — after I’d shown God the door, what was left? I Found God, Became A Pastor And Then Lost My Faith. Here's What I Believe In Now.

These are just what I found in minutes so are you going to say "well they never believed in the first place".

Will God carry through those that continue to believe, YES but will He force people that turn away from the faith they once had, not for what I see in scripture.

We have the God given free will with which to trust in Him and I do not see anywhere in the bible that we loose that free will.

So if we can freely trust in Him we can also later freely reject Him.

 

[Ben1445]

I agree we do not work for our salvation but we do have to continue to believe and we know people have chosen to abandon the faith.

Joshua Harris, author of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," and former pastor of a mega-church in Maryland, renounced his faith, saying: "I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. ...By all the measurements I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian."

Dave Gass, the former pastor at Grace Family Fellowship, pastor at Covenant Church and Cedar Community Church, took to social media and announced: "After 40 years of being a devout follower, 20 of those being an evangelical pastor, I am walking away from the faith.

What about high-profile Christians who renounced their faith?

It s more than disturbing lately to hear of so many prominent Christian personalities turning from the faith It seems as though it s becoming a regular occurrence To read their statements explaining

www.christianpost.com

Rebecca Gummere
Increasingly, though, I struggled with doubt — about God’s presence, about God’s trustworthiness, about the meaning of the Church in the world and the truth of its foundational tenets.
After I’d deconstructed my whole belief system — the creeds and the Bible stories and the church teachings and traditions — after I’d shown God the door, what was left? I Found God, Became A Pastor And Then Lost My Faith. Here's What I Believe In Now.

These are just what I found in minutes so are you going to say "well they never believed in the first place".

Will God carry through those that continue to believe, YES but will He force people that turn away from the faith they once had, not for what I see in scripture.

We have the God given free will with which to trust in Him and I do not see anywhere in the bible that we loose that free will.

So if we can freely trust in Him we can also later freely reject Him.

As comes with the warnings in Scripture, I would go further and say potentially, wolves sparing not the flock. Changed into an image of light, and making shipwreck of as many as the roaring lion can devour.
(Did I mix enough metaphors?)