Silverhair
Well-Known Member
But you have not addressed any of the various verses that warn of falling away from the faith that saved you.
Do you think that God will force people to be with Him that do not want to be with Him?
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Authentic Interpretation
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
But you have not addressed any of the various verses that warn of falling away from the faith that saved you.
Do you think that God will force people to be with Him that do not want to be with Him?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
God grants to the saved a regenerated heart and new nature, so that new person in Christ will desire to love and honor Jesus, but still have ole fresh nature that seeks to not be doing that still, but nothing that we can do can break the sealing of the Holy Spirit
If they didn’t want to be with Him, they would not be saved. There will be lots of people who want the culture of Christianity and make claim to things that are incredible.
Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
But instead of saying you turned back from me, I don’t know you anymore, He said I never knew you.
If Scripture doesn’t teach losing salvation, I don’t think it necessary that OSAS be taught every time the NT writers addressed backsliding Christians in the churches.
Seeing rather that John teaches that someone who is saved is not attributed sin when the Holy Spirit dwells in them, I view any Scripture that reprimands believers for their behavior as addressing the backsliding rather than the recently made a child of hell.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is your view but what do you do with the verses that disagree with your view?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Then you need to actually address the verses that say man does fall away.
The OSAS theory is dangerous as it can lead people to think their lifestyle does not matter, they have their ticket.
God will keep those that continue to believe but does not force them to continue to believe.
That is the problem that you are not looking at.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart G868 (G5695) from the faith G4102, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, {G868 to fall away, become faithless}
Realize that one can not fall away from something they do not believe.
Such as?
MUST accept the truth as Jesus told us plainly, that ALL whom the Father gives unto Him shall never perish, as he will raise them up on the last day period
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
1Ti_4:1, Heb_6:4-6, 2Pe_2:20, 2Th_2:3, Heb_10:38-39, 1Th_3:8, 2Pe_1:10
As these verses show some men will follow false teachings and thus fall, some for a season others to their destruction. We as Christians must always be on guard and hold fast to the truth. We are secure in Christ as long as we remain in Christ thru faith. Col_1:21-23
As long as you have the desire and will to remain in the faith of Christ, you are being saved. Even when, not if, you sin and then fall under conviction that's the Holy Spirit working in you. If you worry about your salvation, then the Spirit is still working in you. It is when a person becomes deaf or insensitive to the prompting of the Spirit that salvation can be said to have been forsaken, not by God but by the person.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Those that believe, unless you think He is going to force non believers into heaven?
I actually believe all that God has told us. Which also includes the fact that some will fall away from the faith
What I read in that passage is Paul telling Timothy that there are going to be people who have strange doctrines, seducing spirits. He tells Timothy to remind the brethren about false teachings and teach them good doctrine so that they won’t be running around teaching some strange doctrine about the Holy Spirit. So when they hear someone teaching false doctrine, they will recognize it for what it is and reject it. I have seen Christians get off on a tangent and become distracted and unprofitable in ministry. I don’t see where God takes salvation away from them.
Not true. God is judge. It is not our job to be the Holy Spirit to everyone.
My goal is to say with Paul, “Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.”
It is evident that believers can be distracted.
1 Cor. 5
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Paul doesn’t say he lost his salvation. He said kick him out of the church. Then he recognized that his spirit and flesh have different destinations.
I am looking at it. I, and many others, disagree with your interpretation of it.
I have known OSAS people my whole life. Very few of them were Calvinist or Reformed.
It is not a doctrine exclusive to the reformed.
If my children fall away from their relationship with me, they are no less my children and I am no less their father. We would have a strained relationship and they would be in trouble. I would do anything right to see them return. Because when they are born into my family, they are my family. When we are born of God, sin is not imputed.
Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Since I am no longer under the law. Sin is no longer imputed to me.
I have known some TULIP defenders to hold the same position as yours, Silverhair, though I’ve no doubt it would still be argued out. I have heard it explained that if the saints don’t persevere, they are not the elect. You can slice it several ways and look at it from different perspectives but ultimately, if you have to rely on your own works to be saved, you are working for your salvation, and trying to merit the grace of God.