Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well since Christ died for the whole world your claim means that you hold to a view that is heresy, universalism.
Are you a universalist BF? If not then why do you prompt that view?
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They deny the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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Well since Christ died for the whole world your claim means that you hold to a view that is heresy, universalism.
Are you a universalist BF? If not then why do you prompt that view?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
Trust comes when they are born again, they are saved b4 they truth, believe. When they are born again its to a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The word hope is elpis:
Meaning: hope, expectation, trust, confidence.
faith, hope.
From a primary elpo (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstractly or concretely) or confidence -- faith, hope.
Faith comes with the New Birth !
Trust comes when they are born again, they are saved b4 they truth, believe. When they are born again its to a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The word hope is elpis:
Meaning: hope, expectation, trust, confidence.
faith, hope.
From a primary elpo (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstractly or concretely) or confidence -- faith, hope.
Faith comes with the New Birth !
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
He died for everyone who He causes to be born again. Duh
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So lets see for whom Christ died.
HE DIED ...
1. For all (1Ti_2:6; Isa_53:6).
2. For every man (Heb_2:9).
3. For the world (Joh_3:16-17).
4. For the sins of the whole world (1Jn_2:2).
5. For the ungodly (Rom_5:6).
6. For false teachers (2Pe_2:1).
7. For many (Mat_20:28).
8. For Israel (Joh_11:50-51).
9. For the Church (Eph_5:25).
10. For "me" (Gal_2:20).
BF you need to understand the difference between redemption accomplished and redemption applied.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Hope of the future resurrection to be with Christ in heaven.
The bible is very clear BF we have to believe B4 we are saved not after. That is just one of the errors of the C/R religion.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith;...
I know you have seen these verses before but you still you reject them. The word of God shows your religion is wrong.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
I already know who Christ died for, everyone He causes to be born again and given Faith to believe, hope, trust
I already know who Christ died for, everyone He causes to be born again and given Faith to believe, hope, trust
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
Thats part of it, they heard about that in the Gospel after they are born again Col 1:5
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
They were born again unto that Hope
Thats part of it, they heard about that in the Gospel after they are born again Col 1:5
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
They were born again unto that Hope
37818
Well-Known Member
1 John 5:19, And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
Isaiah 53:12, . . . he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . .
John 19:28, . . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . .
Isaiah 53:12, . . . he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . .
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
okay
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
They deny the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ !
This Socinian system is at the root of where they came up with the the most blatant denial of The Atonement of Jesus.
Then, there were several others, leading up to the deceptiveness in the denials of Andrew Fuller.
They all leave man with no actual Atonement, by trying to cut out whatever lost people may find offensive
and tailor their fancy wording in the attempt to finesse gingerly around the actual words in the Bible.
From: Boyce’s Abstract of Systematic Theology—Chapter 28, THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST.
"SEVERAL prominent theories have been presented, as to the Atoning Work of Christ, and the method by which God Pardons sin,
ALTHOUGH THEY FALL SHORT OF PRESENTING 'A METHOD' THAT SATISFIES GOD'S HOLY JUSTICE, FOR THE SINS OF MEN.
"1. The lowest of these is the Socinian. This proceeds on the principle that God is pure benevolence,
that vindictive justice is incompatible with his character, and that upon mere repentance, God can and will forgive the sinner.
"The work of Christ, therefore, is regarded as one in which he simply reveals or makes known pardon to man.
Nothing that he has done secures it, because he had nothing to do to this end.
It was already prepared in the benevolence of God’s nature, and is simply now made known. [Symington on the Atonement, pp. 2 and 3.]
"The advocates of this theory explain away all that the Scriptures say on the subject of Christ’s death for us,
by maintaining that his life and death were mere examples to us of the manner in which we should live and submit to God.
In their view, therefore, Christ is merely a great teacher and a bright example."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You have a strange way of understand the clear text of the bible.
His people, the children of Abraham not by the flesh, but by faith, Jew and gentile (though there is no distinction now). But that is another discussion.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You had referred to Mat 1:21 when you quoted "for he shall save his people from their sins." So the people being referenced were actual Jews of 1 century were they not? So why quote Mat 1:21 if you wanted to include both Jew and Gentile?
When we are in Christ there is no distinction, Jew or Gentile, if you have freely trusted in Christ Jesus then you are part of the body of Christ.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF you really need to learn how to read. The bible does not support your failed religion. Although you continue to post nonsense that does not make it true.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Yes, it seems we agree that both His death and His resurrection were essential for sinners to be saved. Like love and marriage in the old song, "You can't have one without the other!"
"His people" are "those who are sanctified" by Christ, (Heb. 2:11).
Under the Old Testament, which was only a figure of the New, (Heb. 3:5), we could say, only temporarily, that "His people" were the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh, but that covenant, being weak, imperfect, and faulty, was cancelled (Heb. 10:9). Under the New Covenant, which is eternal, perfect and efficacious, His people are "the ones He makes holy." Those Christ sanctifies, Jew and Gentile alike, make up the house of Israel.
Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters. - Hebrews 2:11 NIV
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. - Romans 2:28-29 KJV
It has always been so. Christ was not made a high priest after the order of Aaron. He was made a high priest after the order of Melchisedec, which was in operation in the days of Abraham, and was..IS, rather...a universal and eternal priesthood. Abraham paid tithes to Melchisedec, and so did Levi, as he was in the loins of Abraham, showing the priesthood of Melchisedec to be the true authoritative Priesthood.
I cited the verse in Matthew to show that "propitiation" is a removal of sin. Not a mere, temporary abatement of wrath.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Because I have been given understanding from God
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Insults now but I understand
A destruction of sin, more precisely.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Rom_3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Heb_2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
1Jn_2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1Jn_4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins
Jesus's death on the cross did not remove sin but it did turn away the wrath for God from those that deserved it.
Propitiation
It is never used of any act whereby man brings God into a favorable attitude or gracious disposition. It is God who is "propitiated" by the vindication of His holy and righteous character, whereby through the provision He has made in the vicarious and expiatory sacrifice of Christ, He has so dealt with sin that He can show mercy to the believing sinner in the removal of his guilt and the remission of his sins. ...Through the "propitiatory" sacrifice of Christ, he who believes upon Him is by God's own act delivered from justly deserved wrath, and comes under the covenant of grace.
He [God] can act differently towards those who come to Him by faith, and solely on the ground of the "propitiatory" sacrifice of Christ, not because He has changed, but because He ever acts according to His unchanging righteousness.
The expiatory work of the Cross is therefore the means whereby the barrier which sin interposes between God and man is broken down. By the giving up of His sinless life sacrificially, Christ annuls the power of sin to separate between God and the believer.
Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
The bible does not support your contention that "propitiation" is a removal of sin.
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