They deny the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ !

[Brightfame52]

Peters Testimony is in agreement with the Prophet Isiah on the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ Isa 53:5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Healed means to be saved, to have Salvation effected !

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52,
1 John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Thats the world His Death saved.

 

[Charlie24]

Peters Testimony is in agreement with the Prophet Isiah on the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ Isa 53:5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Healed means to be saved, to have Salvation effected !

What about those cast in the Lake of Fire, BF, will they be healed by His stripes?

 

[Brightfame52]

What about those cast in the Lake of Fire, BF, will they be healed by His stripes?

Rabbit trail

 

[Charlie24]

Rabbit trail

Yea it is, because you can't show us where they get out of the Lake of Fire.

 

[Aaron]

Oh boy do we have different lenses in the Scripture.

Definitely. You, obviously, have the Darby/Scofield lenses. I have the apostolic lenses.

But that's the way it is, I'm not going to fight with you, sometimes you just have to let it go.

At some point we reach an impasse.

 

[Charlie24]

Definitely. You, obviously, have the Darby/Scofield lenses. I have the apostolic lenses.


At some point we reach an impasse.

No, Scofield has been proven wrong on several fronts.

 

[Silverhair]

God gave us a picture book in the OT. The Apostle cites it in Hebrews 9 and 10.

The act of propitiation puts away sin.

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. - Hebrews 9:24-28

...

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. - Hebrews 10:4 KJV

Putting away sin does not mean the person was saved just that the wrath of God, the judgement of God, was withheld.

Lev 16:9 "Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the LORD fell, and make it a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 "But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat

Lev 16:15 "Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat.
Lev 16:16 "He shall make atonement for the holy place, because of the impurities of the sons of Israel and because of their transgressions in regard to all their sins;...

Lev 16:21 "Then Aaron shall lay both of his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the sons of Israel and all their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and he shall lay them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who stands in readiness.
Lev 16:22 "The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to a solitary land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness

See Lev 16:9-22 which is a type of Christ who bore the sins of the world at the cross.

Christ was the propitiation/atonement sacrifice. By His sacrifice He turned away the wrath of God and allowed Him to be gracious or merciful and ready to forgive those that would trust in His son.

 

[Silverhair]

Isn't the biblical truth that both Christ's perfect life and His sacrificial death are essential for salvation?

“"Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth"; who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness — by whose stripes you were healed.” (1Pe 2:22-24 NKJV)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” (1Pe 1:3 NKJV)

If He had remained dead, nobody could be saved. But if He had not died, how could He have been the perfect Sacrifice for sin?

Of course they are as He had to be to spotless lamb/ no sin.

Where many on the C/R side fail is when they say we are saved at the cross. His death covered our sins, it turned away the wrath of God, but by His life we can be saved.

We cannot stop short of the resurrection.

 

[Silverhair]

Peters Testimony is in agreement with the Prophet Isiah on the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ Isa 53:5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Healed means to be saved, to have Salvation effected !

BF healed does not mean saved. You have stopped short of salvation when you stop short of the resurrection.

As @David Lamb rightly said "If He had remained dead, nobody could be saved."

 

[Silverhair]

Definitely. You, obviously, have the Darby/Scofield lenses. I have the apostolic lenses.


At some point we reach an impasse.

Can't help but comment on this post.

@Aaron from what I have seen in your posts I would have to say you see things through the Augustinian/Calvinism lens. Which is a man-made view from the 4th century.

But I agree on the impasse. The C/R view and the biblical view cannot be aligned.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

BF healed does not mean saved.

It does, it means to bring about ones salvation. Thats total conversion. Its the greek word iaomai :

1. o cure, heal
2. to make whole
   1. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

Thats salvation. And Im not alone in this understanding,

Now Peter borrowed this scripture from the Prophecy of Isaiah 53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Matt Poole comments:

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
But; but this was a most false and unrighteous sentence.

He was wounded; which word comprehends all his pains and punishments, and his death among and above the rest.

For our transgressions; not by them, which is expressed by another particle, not by the wickedness of the Jews; but for or because of them, as this particle commonly signifies, for the guilt of their sins, which he had voluntarily taken upon himself, and for the expiation of their sins, which was hereby purchased and procured of God for men. Which interpretation is confirmed,

1. By the opposition of this truth to the false opinion mentioned in the foregoing clause, that he was smitten of God for the guilt of his own sins.

2. By the following clause, as we shall see.

3. By the nature of the thing; this being evident from scriptures both from the Old and New Testament, that Christ was not to suffer for his own, but for other men’s sins. See Daniel 9:24,26.

The chastisement of our peace; those punishments by which our peace, i.e. our reconciliation to God, and salvation, or happiness, was to be purchased.

Was upon him; was laid upon him by God’s justice with his own consent.

With his stripes we are healed; by his sufferings we are saved from our sins, and from the dreadful effects thereof.

Isaiah 53 Matthew Poole's Commentary

This is Gospel Truth

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair




It does, it means to bring about ones salvation. Thats total conversion. Its the greek word iaomai :

1. o cure, heal
2. to make whole
   1. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

Thats salvation. And Im not alone in this understanding,

Now Peter borrowed this scripture from the Prophecy of Isaiah 53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Matt Poole comments:

Isaiah 53 Matthew Poole's Commentary

This is Gospel Truth

If we were saved at the cross then the resurrection was not necessary BF.

We are saved by faith in the risen Christ.

You trust M. Poole I will trust Paul and the inspired word of God.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our trespasses and was raised to life for our justification.

Mentioning the Lord Jesus led Paul to state again the Savior’s central place in God’s program of providing righteousness for sinful people by grace through faith. Both Christ’s death and His resurrection are essential to that work of justification.... Christ’s death as God’s sacrificial Lamb (cf. Joh_1:29) was to pay the redemptive price for the sins of all people (Rom_3:24) so that God might be free to forgive those who respond by faith to that provision. Christ’s resurrection was the proof (or demonstration and vindication) of God’s acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice (cf. Rom_1:4). Thus because He lives, God can credit His provided righteousness to the account of every person who responds by faith to that offer. BKC

You can believe what you want BF but the bible shows that you are wrong in this.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

If we were saved at the cross then the resurrection was not necessary BF.

A very foolish unlearned comment, for the resurrection of Christ gives the New Birth, thats why the ones He died for are born again, through His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Thats why it says those reconciled by His death shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The resurrection of Christ from the dead was absolutely necessary for the Spiritual Phase of Salvation, Reconciliation was the Legal phase of salvation which you deny !

 

[Aaron]

Putting away sin does not mean the person was saved

Yes, it does. His sins were taken away. He was saved from his sins.
Mat 1:21 - and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

just that the wrath of God, the judgement of God, was withheld.

According to the Apostle, when Christ did it, it was actually done, not to be undone. Either way, the penitent is saved from wrath.

 

[Aaron]

Christ was the propitiation/atonement sacrifice. By His sacrifice He turned away the wrath of God and allowed Him to be gracious or merciful and ready to forgive those that would trust in His son.

By bearing the sins of the elect in his body, portrayed in the very Law you cited.

1Pe 2:24 KJV - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Yes, healed here means saved.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



A very foolish unlearned comment, for the resurrection of Christ gives the New Birth, thats why the ones He died for are born again, through His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Thats why it says those reconciled by His death shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The resurrection of Christ from the dead was absolutely necessary for the Spiritual Phase of Salvation, Reconciliation was the Legal phase of salvation which you deny !

You quote 1Pe 1:3 but do not seem to believe it BF.

You keep saying people are saved at the cross, but post a verse that shows your view is wrong.

Do you actually know what you believe?

I do not deny any part of salvation where as you continue to deny the necessity of the resurrection when you claim people are saved at the cross.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, it does. His sins were taken away. He was saved from his sins.
Mat 1:21 - and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


According to the Apostle, when Christ did it, it was actually done, not to be undone. Either way, the penitent is saved from wrath.

Anyone Christ died for is saved from His wrath because they are now reconciled to Him by His Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

They were saved from His wrath even while being enemies and hateful towards Him

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

You quote 1Pe 1:3 but do not seem to believe it BF.

Seems like you dont believe it, the Resurrection of Christ causes the New Birth to them He died for, He gives them experientially eternal life.

Blessed [gratefully praised and adored] be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant and boundless mercy has caused us to be born again [that is, to be reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] to an ever-living hope and confident assurance through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, AMP

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, it does. His sins were taken away. He was saved from his sins.
Mat 1:21 - and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Yes Jesus will save His people, those that trust in the risen Christ.

So from what you are saying then all Jews, His people, are saved. You do have a different way of reading scripture.

According to the Apostle, when Christ did it, it was actually done, not to be undone. Either way, the penitent is saved from wrath.

Saved from the wrath of God can mean that He will not bringing judgement on them at this time. He is long suffering.

Yes the penitent is saved because they have repented and trusted in God so they are saved from the wrath of God to come.