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- Thread starter Alan Dale Gross
- Start date
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF you are trying to support something as the gospel that is at odds with scripture.
The TULIP/Dog are not biblical and you should know this. Does the TULIP reflect the love of God for His creation? NO it does not.
Do your own research BF and look at the pagan influences that caused augustine to move into error.
I listed where some of the false views of the TULIP/DoG came from, are you just going to ignore the truth so you can hold to that man-made philosophy?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF I had never heard of the Calvinist/Arminian dispute until about 15 years ago.
I have been a Christian for over 65 years so I can see that the TULIP/DoG is not the gospel as it does not align with the word of God.
It seems you are just blindly following a religion and are not will to look at anything that might make you question what you profess to believe.
What it comes down to is you are trusting man rather than the word of God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Tulip Truths are found all over the scripture. You have been shown them b4 yet you cant receive it, you reject it as mans philosophy
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Then you heard the Gospel 15 yrs ago, see when you heard the Truths of Tulip argued for, contended for, you heard the Gospel
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I know Origen had some different ideas.
When I did a search it seems his idea was that all people might eventually attain salvation, but only after being purged of their sins through "divine fire".
Origen's concept of universal salvation was based on his belief in the ultimate restoration of all things through Christ.
Which in itself is something that I would like to see as the idea of anyone spending eternity in hell just tears at my soul.
Tertullian said people should be baptized was he wrong?
So believers should not be baptized is that what you are saying? Or do you think baptism is wrong, not sure what your problem is with what he said. Baptism is a public confession of ones faith so even doing it on their deathbed is still just that.
Was Irenaeus wrong?
Irenaeus argued that Old Testament Gentiles could be justified through faith and lived by God's grace, even before the coming of Christ. He emphasized that those who lived justly and piously in the Old Testament, and who believed in the coming of Christ, were also justified. Irenaeus's view aligns with the idea that justification is not limited to the New Testament era, but extends to all who have faith in God and live according to His will
Irenaeus believed that Old Testament Gentiles, like Abraham, were justified by faith in God's promises. He points to Abraham's faith being credited to him as righteousness (Romans 4:3) as an example of this
Strange that you condemn this ECF's but you hold to the pagan philosophy that Augustine brought into the church.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF the TULIP is not biblical. What you are claiming is false.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Tulip is the Gospel, others like Spurgeon understood that.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
No BF what I found was a man-made philosophy that stoked the pride of man was call Calvinism.
Just a simple reading of their teachings made it clear that the religion compromised the character of God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You can keep saying it but it does not make it true.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
If thats what you call the Gospel, thats between you and God
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I have believed the word of God for over 65 years so I am not about to trust in a man-make philosophy that holds to the TULIP/DoG.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
If you are going to read the ECFs, they are not scripture, which just means that you will need to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I, on the other hand, am a Baptist, so I follow "Sola Scriptura" and do not care a whit for the opinions of the ECFs. So I will NOT be doing your homework for you and presenting links to ECF quotes as I have done enough to warn you to "beware of the bones".
Read the letters of Paul and John and Peter ... there are no "bones" in the God-breathed scripture.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Is Genesis 50:20 a "paqan philosophy" that Augustine brought into the Church?
Is John 6:44 a "paqan philosophy" that Augustine brought into the Church?
Is John 3:14-21 a "paqan philosophy" that Augustine brought into the Church?
Is Ephesians 1:3 to 2:10 a "paqan philosophy" that Augustine brought into the Church?
Is Romans 9 a "paqan philosophy" that Augustine brought into the Church?
You have such peculiar ideas.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Tulip is the Gospel, the word of God, and it seems to me you reject that portion
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
WOW do you ever sound spiritual.
Do you think you are the only one that read the bible? The ECF's were christian leaders of the early church so while their words are not scripture they are useful even for us baptists.
But as pre usual you make comments and then when pressed you dodge.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you should look at the TULIP/DoG that you hold to.
The TULIP/DoG does not honor God but rather calls the character of God into question.
The influential philosophies as ‘Stoicism, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and Manicheanism’ that all gave life to Augustine’s later theology.
Stoics, there was assumed freedom that was ultimately “hidden within a mere façade of “free will.
Neoplatonists, a free choice meant that there is a need for the restoration “by divine infusion to restore the will.
Gnostics, “all works are predestined, discipline and abstinence effect nothing, and the elect are saved by knowing that they are saved.
Manicheans, man’s “‘enslaved will’ cannot choose – it is damned until unilaterally released” by God’s own initiative.
But that would require that you take off the blinders and actually read some history.
The bible is the truth not your vaunted TULIP/DoG.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF I can not help someone that is blinded by their pride as you seem to be.
I have pointed you to the truth but I cannot make you accept it.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You know the feeling is mutual
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
And when we get to heaven we will find out who was closer to the actual biblical truth.