In the context if the Bible, is the word 'believe' the same as "faith'?

[cjab]

I have a few videos for you Greek scholars if you get bored. Tell me what you think. Source and content. One is Romans 1:17, and the other is Galatian 3:22. both about 12 minutes long.

This might be a case of an academic trying to be too clever. I find his ultimate argument turgid, although I would allow his first point as valid: πῐ́στῐς should be allowed to refer either to the act of believing, or to the referent of the belief. Context will determine which of these two nuances is inferred; and here I find both to be inferred. But I find some of his reasoning to be perverse:

At 9:00 ff., he says "The righteousness of God is revealed from this faith."
At 9:40 ff., he says "A very similar function is given to the faith here. It is the thing that reveals God's righteousness, without which no-one can become righteous."
At 10:04 "Just as the power of God for salvation is revealed in the gospel, so the righteousness of God from the faith."


My first point is that "ἐκ πῐ́στῐς" in Rom 1:17 doesn't lend itself to the conclusion that "faith is the thing that reveals God's righteousness."

Who is the gospel / righteousness of God" revealed to? It is revealed to those with faith, the adherents of the gospel and appropriators of its power.

Rom 1:17 must be taken in conjunction with Rom 1:16. By Rom 1:17, "In 'it' the righteousness of God is revealed," grammatically refers back to Rom 1:16 where 'it' infers the gospel. It is the gospel which is "the power of God." The righteousness of God is revealed by the gospel, not 'from the faith'.

In Eph 2:8 we learn (the grace of) the gospel is appropriated "through (διὰ) faith."


So my second point concerns the prepositions in Rom 1:17. ἐκ means "out of", εἰς means "into / unto." The idea seems to be that of an appropriator of the gospel's power & righteousness progressing from a little faith to a greater faith. Different nuances to πῐ́στῐς (confidence / trust-->belief / persuasion) and allusions by Christ to "measures of faith" suggest a little-->great interpretation, as personal righteousness increases in line with faith.

Alternately, different referents to πῐ́στῐς (Moses --> Christ) suggest another equally valid interpretation. In the end, I think both coalesce in the sense it was God's purpose to increase faith by sending his Son.

 

[Dave...]

This might be a case of an academic trying to be too clever.

Hey cjab

I hear you. I allowed for that. He seems to know a lot about the languages, but still, understanding Scripture is ultimately from the Holy Spirit and does require a theologians process of interpretation, even in the original languages. He kind of reminds me of a poor mans Kenneth Wuest. A better translator than a theologian. Not that I had a problem with Wuest as a theologian. I always appreciated his stuff, but never relied heavily on him as a theologian.

I learned a long time ago that the Greek is no silver bullet that could answer all the theological questions. In reality, it's just a tool to help the theologian in us, not something to replace it. Even in the original languages, understanding context is necessary to properly interpret words. Word studies, as someone noted to me recently, can cause just as many problems as they solve, because there's no context to interpret the words properly. In short, sound hermeneutics is needed in the original languages also.

Dave

 

[Dave...]

Remember, I also hold to a person being born again apart from us doing anything to get that way.
To be more specific, I believe that a person's new birth and their subsequent indwelling ( after Pentecost ) are closely associated...

First the new birth, then the belief of God's word, then the Spirit seals us unto the day of our bodily redemption.

Hey Dave

But the new birth is what gives us the life, right? You can't have life without the new birth, and you can't have the new birth, without also having the life. Do you agree?

If yes, then I would suggest that we believe so that we can have the Holy Spirit placed into us. Which also places us into Christ and His death and resurrection, born again. That's the life. The Gospel is believe and be saved. Believe and have life. We are made alive in Christ. That's actually one of the the points of the thread. That the faith from that life, Spirit empowered, comes as a result of believing before we receive that indwelling and are born again. There's a distinction between the initial, and the ongoing. The life always results from believing.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (Also see John 11:25, 20:31)

Dave

 

[Van]

Hey Van

I see it a bit differently. We are placed into Christ Jesus when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13), called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Abraham, like all OT believers, died having not received those promises (Hebrews 11:13). What promises? One was to be born again, which required the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (See Ezekiel 36:26-27, John 7:38-39, John 14:16-20, 25-26, 15:26, John 16:12-16) That promise began to be realized at Pentecost. After the transition, that is everyone who the promises were made to and owed were made whole, the transition was over. We call Pentecost the birth of the Church because those were the first to be placed into Christ, the Church. I believe that this may be why Paul wrote in Romans that we (believers of that time), were the first fruits of the Spirit (Romans 8:23).

Abraham was credited with [Jesus'] righteousness, the righteousness of God, in the same way that the believers in John 1:12-13 were given the right to become children of God, born again. Those promises, rights were realized at Pentecost, only after the Holy Spirit was given, which had to wait for Jesus to first be glorified. After Jesus was glorified, all the ingredients that save us, both positionally (legally, the Law), and practically (born again), were now reality, thus the agent of that placing into, or baptism, the Holy Spirit was given. When we are placed "In Christ" by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we are also placed into his death, and raised up with Him. This Spirit baptism, or placing into Christ, simultaneously, spiritually baptized us into His death, and then spiritually raised us up with Him, thus we are crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20), and raised up with Him (Eph. 2:6). That's born again. Also resulting from this spiritual union from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we are imputed with the righteousness of God, the righteousness that Abraham was credited [imputed] with, but had to wait for (Romans 3:25-26). And the atonement, which can only apply after the cross. All these OT believers in Hebrews died having not received these promises. They did, however, receive them when Jesus descended for three days and preached to the spirits. After Jesus was raised from the dead, with His ascension, He took Paradise with Him to the third heaven to be in the Presence and live with the Father.

In short (too late, I know), Abraham was credited with righteousness because the righteousness that he was credited was still not yet established, that is Jesus fulfilling God's Law as fully man (on our behalf), and fully God (which made it possible). That, and the atonement, was part of what was being waited upon and is what was meant when the Bible said that Jesus needed to be glorified ("it is finished"). Which then gave all the ingredients needed to save us, so the immersion into Christ with the Holy Spirit, the placing into Christ with the Holy Spirit, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, now had the death and resurrection for us to also be placed into and born again, the death on the cross for atonement, and the righteousness of God established to impute as a result of that spiritual union. The ingredients.

Romans 4 elaborates. this really say it all quite clearly.

Romans 4:22-25, 5:1-2 And therefore "it was accounted to him [Abraham] for righteousness." Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand[/B], and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Abraham was imputed with righteousness, just as we are, but He had to wait in Hades, or Sheol, until these promises could be fulfilled.

Dave

1) We are not placed into Christ when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We are transferred into Christ, then undergo the washing of regeneration, causing us to be born anew, and only then are we sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit.

2) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not precede the washing of regeneration (being born anew). None of the verses listed support your claim! For example John 7:39 clearly says after the person believed (past tense) into Christ, the person then (present tense) would receive the Spirit.

3) Please acknowledge that your posted claims are NOT reflected in your cited verses.

4) Please acknowledge God credits the faith of individuals as the basis for transferring them into Christ. A simple statement on this issue would be helpful.

 

[Dave G]

But the new birth is what gives us the life, right?

Yes, it is what makes someone who naturally hates God ( Romans 1, Romans 3, Psalms 10, Psalms 14 etc ) into a new creature.
It's about spiritual life and having a heart-to-heart relationship with God..

You can't have life without the new birth, and you can't have the new birth, without also having the life.

I agree.

If yes, then I would suggest that we believe so that we can have the Holy Spirit placed into us.

My disagreement with you on this point, is that I see the Scriptures saying that the new birth is not a product of our own efforts, but of God's efforts in and through a person.

This means that being born again is not dependent upon bloodline, upon our will, or upon the will of another person ( John 1:13 ).
It's dependent upon a God who works when He wants to...not when we want Him to ( John 3 ).

 

[Dave G]

The Gospel is believe and be saved. Believe and have life.

The Gospel is believed by those that are saved...the Lord is assuring those that have already believed that they have been made new creatures in Christ, and been made alive with Him.
Do you see the difference?

It's not an "offer"...
It's a promise given to those that have believed, not to those that will never believe.

My friend, there's also much more to what the Lord has to say about who He loves and why He loves them, than John 3:16.
Please see the Psalms ( Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5, etc. ) for example, regarding who He loves and who He hates.


That being said, I wish you well in your studies, and God's blessings upon both you and all who read this.