Just was asking if you hold to the heretical or non heretical view
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Eschatology
- Thread starter easternstar
- Start date
easternstar
Member
I believe I am totally surrendered to God.
How do you know that still, small voice is the Holy Spirit and not just your conscience?
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I can't recall anyone on this board that has tossed that term 'heresy' around more than you. I'm certain that I would not designate as 'heresy' everything that you do.
I recognized that he had been posting as Yeshua1 for years. I was confused as to why he started posting as 'JesusFan'. Maybe he will tell us. The only difference in his posts now is he has stopped using the exclamation
at the end of every post
Ascetic X
Member
@easternstar — I basically have 5 signs that the Holy Spirit is residing within me:
(1) my heart resonates with the scriptures as being true (though sometimes hard to fully understand) when I read them
(2) I receive good ideas from Him, that seem not to be coming from my own intellect
(3) I become increasingly repulsed by my sins (quit some indulgent addictions lately) and worldliness (recently got rid of my television and all worldly music, movies, and books)
(4) I have a deep inexplicable inner peace, and other fruits of the Spirit, even when my surface thoughts are in turmoil
(5) I see so many ways that I have been protected from serious dangers and prevented from committing more horrid sins or crimes in my life.
(1) my heart resonates with the scriptures as being true (though sometimes hard to fully understand) when I read them
(2) I receive good ideas from Him, that seem not to be coming from my own intellect
(3) I become increasingly repulsed by my sins (quit some indulgent addictions lately) and worldliness (recently got rid of my television and all worldly music, movies, and books)
(4) I have a deep inexplicable inner peace, and other fruits of the Spirit, even when my surface thoughts are in turmoil
(5) I see so many ways that I have been protected from serious dangers and prevented from committing more horrid sins or crimes in my life.
easternstar
Member
I'm happy that you have that assurance. Thanks for your post.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
“Preterists” (which includes me) believe that the “end times” prophecies were fulfilled in the First Century (while the people that received the original letters were still alive like scripture states and they expected.
”Full Preterists” believe that ALL the scriptures were fulfilled (including Jesus’ return) … which was declared a “heresy” by the Church.
”Partial Preterists” believe that some things were fulfilled (like the destruction of Jerusalem is the promised ‘Tribulation’) and other things (like Jesus second coming) are still future events. [I am a partial preterist].
so @JesusFan was asking for clarification about which “preterist” view the person held.
(if someone thinks that Jesus has already returned, that is a pretty big deal)
Why should it be a big deal when so many passages indicate that His coming (presence) would occur before 'that generation' passed away?
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Christ explains some of the things that will take place, it's the the generation of Jews who are alive at the time the great tribulations begins.
It's Israel that takes the full force of the great tribulation.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Irrespective of whether one thinks the return of Christ is a past or future event, how can Jesus return NOT be a “big deal”?
Oh, it WAS indeed a big deal, a fulfillment of a myriad of scripture. I'm referring to the big deal made by those expecting a physical return of Christ here on earth vs His actual spiritual return at Pentecost and in judgement circa 70 AD.
Why is it such a 'big deal' to those if someone actually believes the scripture that they don't believe?
You should peruse the entire thread I linked to in post #28, several old timers were engaged, including 'the wearisome one' frothing to level the heresy charge.
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Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
Just so you've heard it here first. Believe it or not, Amil is Dripping in the Blood of Jesus.
Saying that should be enough to wet someone's appetite for Worshipping their Savior, to CHECK IT OUT. See post #20, for the link to the best commentary of Revelation you'll ever read. KH knows!
Since we're in this thing of talking about different 'schemes' or 'systems' for studying The End Times, maybe you've seen where I've posted lately about my concern over one certainty that I have come to understand.
Exactly what level of certainty can we have that this verse in the Bible does not contain the word, "Earth"?
4; "Then I saw the Thrones, and those seated on them had been Given Authority to Judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their Testimony of Jesus and for the Word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to Life and Reigned with Christ for a Thousand Years."
If, after looking and reading that verse, because Jesus said that we would be Blessed for reading the book of Revelation, and while studying this scripture with the Aid of the Holy Spirit, IF we find that "Earth" is not a word included in that verse 20:4 of Revelation, (which would mean that the action and players that are actually in there are all in Heaven, including Jesus), where does that take us from here?
Is there a possibility that God could be Directing us away from any system of End Times studies that are dependent on ADDING the whole concept of the "Earth" as being associated with where that verse talks about a 'one-thousand-year' period? Even their very 'name'? 'Pre-Mil, 'Post-Mill', 'Dispensational Pre-Mill'?
That sure seems to me like God Himself Utterly Obliterated and ABSOLUTELY ELIMINATED each of those other three systems and others who have invented 'a Millennium' for a new word description of what they came up with, from the start, RIGHT FROM THE VERY VERSE THEY SAY THEY GET THEIR TEACHING, where they proclaim that the future is going to be about a Stop-Watch timed period of 'a thousand years' that is going to take place on "Earth". WHERE????
Says who? Not God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit speaking through the writers of the Bible, OR IT WOULD BE IN THERE.
AND IT'S NOT. There isn't even enough support for their various opinions about the End Times to legitimize their claim to their own name.
Not even mention that we also have a hard time finding the words, "The Jews", "The Nation of Israel", "the land of Palestine", or the name "Jerusalem", when we make a double-check, proofreading of Revelation 20:4.
I understand exactly how this thinking came about, apart from the Liar being directly behind it (to throw everyone's attention away from the Revelation of Satan's Doom, in that same context).
I'll talk about that reason in another thread.
Happy Hunting. But I wouldn't look too much at works of men who don't have any more substantiation from the Bible for the beliefs they hold than Evolutionists, whose 'system' has never really even had enough evidence contained in the whole shabang to even qualify it as a 'theory'.
BUT THEY HAVE IT IN THEIR NAME, TOO, DON'T THEY?
Right up front! "The Theory of Evolution." When there is actually NO such thing, not even a 'theory', right out of the gate, much less any observable proof of 'evolution' anywhere!
That can be an inside preacher-joke, and it is really cool how your take on it is really real when we're trying to get settled on what God would have us to understand.
Anyway, the joke part of it can be like if you asked me my opinion about a controversial subject and I told you, "I'll have to go look that up in my notes 'to see what I believe about all that....'."
Speaking about another joke that is too serious for laughter, you can spot a false teacher on the 'End Times' this way. It's easy. It's all easy.
Just watch for them to close the Bible, and place one elbow on it, then point at you with a finger on their other hand, and say, "THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE IN THE FUTURE..." Really?
Really? You lost me, when you skipped the thing about "line upon line, precept upon precept". Where are the "lines" from the Bible in their little talk, and where are those "precepts" taught that they write sooooo incredibly much too much about, or rewrite the Bible about, in those Study Bible Notes they've got all over the pages of God's Holy Word, saying, "Millennial", "Millennial", "Millennial", "Millennial", "Millennial", "Millennial", "Millennial", etc.?
Really? Really?
Guess again.
If you can't preach to me something about what you stand for that is plainly and clearly spoken of in the Bible, then don't bring your guns to town.
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Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
Nailed it. If someone wants to know what the Bible teaches about the book of Revelation, I'll make them a challenge...
The first six chapters of Hendrixsen's book aren't that long, but if they'll just read those AND LOOK UP THE BIBLE REFERENCE AS THEY READ ALONG, then I know that would be a little effort, but I'm just talking about what I said about, "If someone wants to know what the Bible teaches about the book of Revelation"... Got that?
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I 100% agree that the word "heresy" is much overused (and abused) ... having become the Christian version of what "Nazi" and "Fascist" are in the Political arena. [translation: "How dare you disagree with me you bad, wrong person!"]
However, from a strictly technical definition, I think "preterism" does qualify as "heresy" since it is contrary to the "orthodox" teaching and may have been condemned by an "ecumenical council". I don't sweat such things, since I am pretty sure that Credobaptism also fits the same technical definition and was rejected by an ecumenical council [Council of Carthage: 418 AD]. As BAPTISTS, we answer to SCRIPTURE and GOD who wrote it, not to "orthodoxy" or Ecumenical councils. It just served no purpose to redefine words.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Luke 17:31-36 [NKJV]
31 "In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods [are] in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 "Remember Lot's wife. 33 "Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 "I tell you, in that night there will be two [men] in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 "Two [women] will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 "Two [men] will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 [ESV]
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Did all of this occur at Pentecost?
For us, is it all "history" and none of it still "prophesy"?
[I find that an unsupported position, but it is not my job to convince anyone of anything.]
Of course not, or we would've been told of it.
The 'left behind' in Luke 17:31-36 were the remnants of the Jews that the Romans didn't carry off. Explains why Palestinians and
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 will most likely be as 'the kingdom of God':
Luke Chapter 17
20 | And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: |
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That surrender gives peace to me. I can know that all things are in His hands because I put them there. Several years ago I had emergency surgery to save my life and was in the hospital for many days. All that time I had the peace and joy of God in my heart in spite of the circumstances, and was able to witness some and give out many tracts. It's simply a matter of knowing that God is in charge so everything is okay. "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee" (Is. 26:3, one of my favorite verses).
Not a problem. The Holy Spirit actually speaks to me in a still small voice. My conscience isn't a person who communicates. It just kicks me in the rear.
Let me clarify for some people that the voice of the Holy Spirit to an individual believer in bibliology is not revelation, which is how we got the Bible. It is simply guidance, a very important matter for being indwelt by the Spirit. Revelation is truth for all people, but guidance is the Holy Spirit leading and informing one or several people to do Christ's will.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I find it far easier to trust God with my own life (Whether I live or die, I belong to Christ, so I win either way) than with the suffering of someone that I love. God has a track record of not being shy about permitting His people to suffer ... often a LOT.
Ascetic X
Member
The leading and informing guidance from the Holy Spirit is called word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discerning of spirits in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.