Women are Not to Teach or Usurp Authority...

[Silverhair]

You've been pointing to Scripture, but not to any passages that would refute my position or prove yours.

I have pointed to scripture that you say supports your position and said it need to be read and understood in consideration of the culture and conditions that Paul was addressing.

Plus I have pointed to other scripture that shows that the word servant is also translated as minister.

I think my 7-year-old nephew should start preaching from the pulpit. It's not the cultural norm, but I'm just going to trust that God is using the right people. Would you have a problem with that?

Just because you think your nephew should does not mean that God has called him to do so.

All you have to do is look around at al the men who call themselves preachers who distort the word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Unbelievable. You believe today's culture trumps scripture.

Not what I said @Foxmeister. I said look at the culture and conditions Paul was dealing with.

I find it unbelievable that you can be so illogical.

 

[xlsdraw]

I think @Silverhair is confused. He seems to believe that only a pastor can spread the Gospel. He doesn't understand that pastors, elders, and deacons are leaders of the church. Scripture says women are not to serve in those roles because God does not want women having authority over men.

I think he's rebellious.

 

[Kai]

Plus I have pointed to other scripture that shows that the word servant is also translated as minister.

The word "diakonia" (deacon/servant) has a broad meaning, and technically any act of Christian service is a form of ministry. That has nothing to do with the biblical list of qualifications one is required to have to hold the office of pastor/elder.

Just because you think your nephew should does not mean that God has called him to do so.

Just because you think a woman should does not mean that God has called her to do so.

 

[Silverhair]

I think he's rebellious.

Not rebellious just do not agree with the view that some on here have which appears to include you.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

A question for all of you that do not seem to trust God.

Were these women used by God or not? Did the preach or not?

Gladys Aylward left her home in England in 1930 to follow God’s call to China, on the other side of the world. She left home with no support system and no money to be obedient to God’s call. With the Sino-Japanese War waging around her, she struggled to bring the basics of life and the fullness of God to orphaned children.She loved the people of China and Taiwan over a 40 year spread.

Amy Carmichael was an Irish missionary who served in India for over 50 years. She founded orphanages, rescued young children from sex trafficking and forced prostitution, and shared the Gospel in a country that was hostile to Christ. She worked tirelessly for decades and wrote over 35 books about her time serving in India and South Asia.

Lottie Moon was a female missionary who was raised in the United States and in the Southern Baptist tradition, but only came to know Jesus at the age of 18. After she became a Christian she felt called to join the mission field in China and become a teacher. She taught for years in China and also founded the Women’s Missionary Society. Lottie was a huge advocate for women in the mission field and spoke out on behalf of women who felt called to support the local church through mission work.

Mary Slessor was a unique woman and missionary whose life story is an amazing inspiration for all believers and missionaries. She was called to mission and set sail for West Africa in 1876. There she worked to end infanticide in Nigeria and share the good news of Jesus. Slessor learned the language of the Nigerian people and gained their trust, which allowed her to fight for women’s rights, fight infanticide, and spread the name of Jesus.

Elisabeth Elliot was one of the most famous woman missionaries. She is known for sharing the Gospel with the tribe of people who killed her husband. After a tragedy where her husband, Jim Elliot, and his partners were killed by the people of the Huaorani Tribe, she learned the language, and returned to live with the tribe. Over time she befriended many of the Huaorani, even those who were involved in the killing of her husband.

And in every single example you have provided, not one of these women violated the principles of 1 Tim 2-3 or Tit 1. None of these women held the office of a Bishop or pastored a church. They likely left this to the male missionaries! But what your examples do point to is how the Lord CAN use a woman within the biblical guidelines of which he has set.

There is one particular lady who has been a member of our church and is currently in the Laguna province of the metro Manila area reaching ladies and children with the gospel of Christ and God is using her mightily! She is not pastoring a church but is doing her work within the context of local churches pastored by men!

 

[Silverhair]

The word "diakonia" (deacon/servant) has a broad meaning, and technically any act of Christian service is a form of ministry. That has nothing to do with the biblical list of qualifications one is required to have to hold the office of pastor/elder.

And when you continue to ignore culture and reasons for those letter you still miss what Paul was saying.

Just because you think a woman should does not mean that God has called her to do so.

And just because you think a woman does not does not mean that God has not chosen to use women to lead and preach.

Not all men or all women who think they are called are in fact called but since we ar not God then I think it best to leave that up to Him as to whom He chooses.

 

[Ben1445]

If they were acting as shepherds of those people then yes they would be their pastor. What is the duty of a pastor Ben?

Teach the gospel message, shepherd the flock. What do you think those women were doing?

So you look at Sunday school teachers like pastors? If you share the gospel with somebody you’re a pastor? If you read somebody a Bible story, you’re a pastor? There’s no responsibility involved? No leadership role? Just you talk about the Bible to somebody and you’re a pastor?

Yeah, we don’t have the same definition.

 

[Silverhair]

And in every single example you have provided, not one of these women violated the principles of 1 Tim 2-3 or Tit 1. None of these women held the office of a Bishop or pastored a church. They likely left this to the male missionaries! But what your examples do point to is how the Lord CAN use a woman within the biblical guidelines of which he has set.

There is one particular lady who has been a member of our church and is currently in the Laguna province of the metro Manila area reaching ladies and children with the gospel of Christ and God is using her mightily! She is not pastoring a church but is doing her work within the context of local churches pastored by men!

You do make a number of assumptions about those and it seems all women who are missionaries.

But that is your choice. I do not hold to the Calvinist view which makes women second class.

Paul was writing to correct errors in those churches and if you actually look at the culture of the time you would have a better understanding of his comments.

 

[Silverhair]

So you look at Sunday school teachers like pastors? If you share the gospel with somebody you’re a pastor? If you read somebody a Bible story, you’re a pastor? There’s no responsibility involved? No leadership role? Just you talk about the Bible to somebody and you’re a pastor?

Yeah, we don’t have the same definition.

Ben you are just making foolish comments now.

The Bible, the Spirit, and you are priority
The Bible must be interpreted in light of its own historical setting and literary context.
The intent of the original inspired author, as expressed in the text, is the focus of interpretation.

"The most necessary thing in Bible interpretation is common sense." Gordon Fee

 

[Armchair Apologist]

But that is your choice. I do not hold to the Calvinist view which makes women second class.

Where does Calvinism have anything to do with this and where have I even mentioned such a thing?

Every one of these women (including the one I have cited and know personally) are deserving of nothing but the highest honor!

 

[Ben1445]

Ben you are just making foolish comments now.

No, I’m not. What I have said is exactly what you’re and I disagree with it. what I’ve described in asking questions is what you have described.
ButActivity does not equal authority.

 

[Ben1445]

Ben you are just making foolish comments now.

What I did do is explain your position quite clearly and it looks stupid. That’s why you call me foolish.

 

[Kai]

And when you continue to ignore culture and reasons for those letter you still miss what Paul was saying.

Using your same logic, my 7-year-old nephew should be allowed to preach because our culture is becoming more and more focused on equality. Do you see how silly that sounds?

When you ignore the fact that Paul didn't appeal to culture but rather to male headship established at creation, you'll continue to miss the point.

 

[Silverhair]

Where does Calvinism have anything to do with this and where have I even mentioned such a thing?

Every one of these women (including the one I have cited and know personally) are deserving of nothing but the highest honor!

The view that women cannot be pastors from what I have seen is mainly found in Calvinist churches.

 

[Silverhair]

No, I’m not. What I have said is exactly what you’re and I disagree with it. what I’ve described in asking questions is what you have described.
ButActivity does not equal authority.

I agree that activity does not equal authority but you deny the ability of women to have any authority which puts you in the position of overruling God.

 

[Silverhair]

What I did do is explain your position quite clearly and it looks stupid. That’s why you call me foolish.

No you have not even come close to explaining my position.

 

[Silverhair]

Using your same logic, my 7-year-old nephew should be allowed to preach because our culture is becoming more and more focused on equality. Do you see how silly that sounds?

When you ignore the fact that Paul didn't appeal to culture but rather to male headship established at creation, you'll continue to miss the point.

And you continue to ignore that God can and has used various people to accomplish His plan.

Paul was dealing with serious problems in those churches and if you took the time to look at that then you just might get a better understanding of the text.

 

[Silverhair]

This will be post #179 on this thread and as is obvious the views have not been changed.

So I will leave you to your views and I will keep mine.

 

[Kai]

And you continue to ignore that God can and has used various people to accomplish His plan.

That does not mean that someone who is living in active rebellion against God's word should be granted a free pass simply because they are preaching the Gospel.