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JonC, thanks very much for all your posts on the early church view of the atonement. It's really laughable to see all the flailing about, trying to make the ECF seem to support PSA, a doctrine that didn't exist at the time, proof of which being that neither the Eastern branch nor the Western...

Thanks. Yes, I believe that. But I need something tangible. Communication is a two-way street. If I'm the only one I hear talking, that's not communication.

I'll add this: He's the only one who has had the guts to stand up to the DemonRats and the legacy media. I wish the rest of the Republican party would grow a spine. I don't really consider myself a Republican either because that party, in my opinion, is still riddled with globalists, which I am...

The Carter administration. He was supposed to be a born-again Christian.

Let me preface this post by saying that I changed from a conservative to a moderate-liberal after I got grown and stayed that way for 25 years. However, I then saw what liberal policies had done, and I became a staunch conservative. At first, I didn't support Trump in the 2016 Republican...

Exactly. So why don't we see this in churches today? I'd like to go to a church where miraculous healings are the norm.

PSA was a product of its time. God had come to be viewed not so much as a merciful Father but instead as a harsh judge. To discount early Christian views and 1500 years of Christian history in favor of a 'johnny-come-lately' theory based on a terribly wrong view of the nature of God is highly...

So you believe that 'modern' Christians -- those who have lived since 1500 -- have had a better understanding of the atonement than those early Christians did, many of whom knew Jesus personally or knew the apostles. Amazing.

In reading these various threads, I must state that I owe a huge debt of gratitude to JonC for his many accurate posts about PSA, its origins, and its complete lack of support in scripture, the early church, and the Church Fathers, despite attempts here to contort the Fathers's words into...

I don't mean to come off as arrogant or sound like a know-it-all. I'm not. I've questioned every belief I've held and doubted more than a few. But if there's one I'm certain about, it's the atonement, and that's based on scripture, the early church, subsequent church history, and Jesus Christ...

Oh, I have lots more than my own private interpretation. But having discussed this in depth and at length on other forums over the years, and to the point of the opposition getting nasty, I am just weary of it actually. So I'm just posting the facts, and people can take it or leave it.

Yes, you said about the EOC what I was trying to say. I also prefer the early Anabaptist and Quaker view of the atonement.

Thank you. I have not discussed this in depth with my pastor, but I have not had the opportunity to do so. And I would be the opposite of you, in that I have not found people who hold to PSA who are not problematic in other areas. Or maybe I shouldn't say "problematic", but rather holding wrong...

If I was going to choose a church to belong to based solely on atonement doctrine, it would be the Eastern Church. They have held the earliest and scriptural doctrine of the atonement unchanged for 2000 years.

I'm not affiliated with anybody, except the small rural Baptist church I grew up in. After I got grown, and moved around quite a lot, I was a part of several different denominational and non-denominational churches. But I moved back home, and back to the little Baptist church of my childhood. My...

To be fair to the RCC, I need to add that Anselm's theory of the atonement was not and is not their prevailing or primary view. Rather, it is the Thomistic view that Jesus gained a superabundance of merit or favor, and this merit is administered through the sacraments. I don't agree with this...

Again, you are misunderstanding the entirety of these verses. The word 'but' contrasts and corrects the previously mistaken view. Further, I might say for example, crushing my enemy would please me, but that doesn't mean that I would personally do the crushing. I have recently questioned...

Maybe all three of us are the same person. :)

I guess most anything can happen on a forum.

One of the favorite supposed proof-texts of PSA actually refutes the heinous theory. Isaiah 53:4-5 does not teach PSA. Consider this "...we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions...", etc. The word "but" expresses a contrast with what came...