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(2) Acts 10:2,4,31 - Prayers and Alms - three times prayers and alms are mentioned as the cause of getting God’s attention. These are preparatory graces (actual graces). This means Cornelius received these graces first (prevenient) and then acted on them by praying and giving alms and, as a...

(C) Invincible Ignorance - Another possible example would be through “Invincible Ignorance”. “It is known to us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and...

Hi Everyone, I’ll start answering tomorrow Here is my main post that I was going to put on as my OP in the first thread. Some Catholics on this forum will be relieved to read that I accept and am posting this first view. Don’t think I’m contradicting myself with this first view below. What I...

Rom 5:5 = Titus 3:6 = Baptism - I know you don’t see this one either.These are the only two times Paul uses the word “Pour” (see Strong’s #1632 Pour = Shed). Water came from Christ’s side. So he uses the word “Pour” in Romans 5 then talks about Baptism in Romans 6.

See Post #106 (St. Augustine is arguing against heretics) Now those very persons, who think it unjust that infants which depart this life without the grace of Christ should be deprived not only of the kingdom of God, into which they themselves admit that none but such as are regenerated through...

Post #146 - This post was in error and didn’t come out right. Sorry.

Do you believe in grace before justification?

Gal 2:20 - This is talking about Faith “after” justification.

Normally, Baptism is our initial Justification.

All you are doing is making an assertion. It doesn’t prove anything. You must interpret things in context. I proved the tenses of justification in this verse.

My answer was sufficient.

It’s Both. That’s how it’s done.

We’ll have to continue this maybe in another thread? I forget how this works.

My Comment: Eph 2:5 is Baptism. I’ve already covered this. The official KJV notes tie Eph 2:5 to Col 2:13 and Rom 6:4-5 which are classic verses on Baptism.

Hi 37818, John 17:17 - Christ is praying for the increased holiness (graces) of His disciples because He was sending them on a mission to the world. Question: I think you are trying to use this verse to say this is how you are justified. I thought Protestants separated justification and...

Eph 2:5 = Col 2:12-13 = Baptism. Baptism is right in those group of verses you quoted so I agree that those verses tell how God saves. God does it all in baptism and that’s why we baptize infants.

No. I explained that.

No on what? No on grace before justification?

Ok. Again, I’m sorry. Many on here may be surprised when I put on my main post because I believe those experiences of salvation you have are real. It’s just that I believe they are exceptions to the rule. The main way to receive saving Grace, which is Sanctifying grace, is through the sacraments.

I don’t know how many times I have to say that Baptism is the “Instrument” of our initial justification. As far as Rom 10 goes, let me ask you a question: I’m sure you remember the day, the hour and the minute you were saved. Did you hear a sermon before that moment? Did you read anything out of...