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Those, like Luke for instance, who believe that God has predetermined all that comes to pass.

Can I steal this? Very well said! :thumbsup:

Is my view of soteriology divinely determined to be wrong or is it right? Deterministic believers choosing to debate us should keep in mind that our view is either determined by God, if you are right, or very possibly accurate if your not.

Ok, let's start over... Try this... Suppose, just for sake of argument that the non-Calvinistic perspective is accurate and men are responsible (response-abled) and free to respond to God's gracious appeal to be reconciled. Here is a question for consideration: Do you believe that a man who...

There are numerous discussions going at once and maybe you felt that you were responding to one line of arguments while I felt I was responding to another, who knows? But a simple re-read reveals very clearly that all the discussions up to that point in the thread melded into one key point (at...

Here is the thread...follow it and you will see that my first question was intended to ask what YOU believe about OUR views regarding a free response (humility, etc). I reworded it when it wasn't clear. Then I provided a clear interpretation of what I was meaning and asked you to work with me...

What you may not realize is that even this quote validates my point. It shows that there are various approaches even from within the Calvinistic camp regarding regeneration over the years, thus belittling comments suggesting that others don't understand the Calvinistic perspective, as if it is...

I will admit that at times I think people know more than they do regarding debate terms and practices as I debated professionally for years back in school. A 'supposition' is commonly referenced as one side requests the others to 'suppose' X is true for the sake of an argument (i.e. if my...

Here we go again. You choose to belittle me rather than simply stick to your views by suggesting there is complete uniformity on this matter with the Calvinistic ranks. This only serves to reveal your own lack of scholarship on the matter... Or how about Martin Luther? Now, go twist...

"as in our system" = 'as supposed by our system' Work with me bro...

This is getting a bit far fetched, don't you think? You are now even resorting to having to change the terms from 'imparted righteousness' to 'regenerative righteousness' to make it work for you. Clearly Piper said that imparted righteousness (fruit and gifts) was built on the foundation of...

Keep reading...post #91

So, you'd be okay to be lumped in with anti-evangelistic hyper Calvinists or other heretical sects of your position? If not, then don't do that to me. I was referencing mainstream scholars differences on valid points within your system. I wasn't attempting to deny your point was...

A supposition is to suppose something IS true. I asked you to suppose OUR position is true and then answer that question under that supposition. Instead you supposed your straw-man was true and replied accordingly. Does someone who asks for forgiveness, even if they are asking 'freely'...

Which itself brings into question your initial application of this passage since we were discussion the unregenerate becoming regenerate, not the regenerate expressing his need for God's help to recover from his backslidden state. What do you mean by 'turn himself?' Do you mean the desire to...

If you are going to presume our system then presume IT, and not the straw-man. We believe humility and repentance is exactly what scripture says it is even if is an actual free response of man...so you still haven't answered the question. You've only straw-manned us..

Clearly. In fact, I'd argue that many of them disagree on many key points of the dogma. I never said otherwise. I was just pointing out why rebuking me for not understanding 'Calvinism's' wide range of perspectives and nuances is not unique to me, as even you would be at odds with some within...

Ok, allow me to reword that...are you under the impression that repentance done as a free responsible act (as in our system) somehow merits or earns forgiveness and eternal life? If so, why? On what basis do you draw that conclusion?

I know, I know, God has to impart on him a willingness to turn for him to ask for God to turn him so that God will impute an irresistible turning after he asks for the turning that God made him want to ask for... Again, do you guys have a decoder ring of some kind? :smilewinkgrin:

You don't find it a bit contradictory that the agent making this request is willing to make the request given that God has yet to 'turn him?' :applause: