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Additionally, I'd like to add: My conclusion: Hardening seems to be a progress that is propelled or continued by the hearers willful rebellion of revelation (light), right? So, to PRESUME, as I believe you do, that the hearer is born ONLY ABLE to rebel REGARDLESS of the nature and purpose of...

A few clarifying questions, if I may: 1. Can you specifically define and describe the DIFFERENCE in the abilities of one who has not progressed through this hardening process and one who has? Are both equally unable to hear, see, understand and turn to God for healing? If so, what is the...

Allow me. Calvinists would say that there are two different kinds of life, and so this verse SHOULD be read to mean, "But you are not spiritually alive and thus unwilling to come to Me that you may have eternal life." Am I correct Calvinists?

And why doesn't that reader 'sufficiently labor in the Word?' Did God not give that reader the necessary measure of grace to do so? If not, why not? See how denying personal RESPONSE - ABILITY just isn't a workable reality? You leave no possible alternative than for it to be God's...

I read your second post before your first, so once you acknowledged the error it should have been dropped. All is good. I understand your intent now. No worries. :)

Of course. Why wouldn't you think that? We disagree on these points so it wouldn't make much since for you to believe I'm progressing, so doesn't that kind of go without saying? Likewise. Calvinism was 'entry level' in my journey. The idea of God having to 'play both sides of the chess...

Giving personal analogies or suppositions to make a point for discussion is not what 'being personal' means. You know what "ad hominem" is and it just isn't necessary. Just address the topic. Very few have actually attempted to explain why the logic of this point is not true.

contingent = determined everything = evil God = Holy, not even a trace of evil Ironic you accuse my view of blurring the lines between man and God when in your system God chooses and acts for man. In my view, man is not the uncaused cause of choices. That doesn't even make sense. We...

Now, if only Calvinists could be so gracious. :smilewinkgrin:

I'm not blaming God for being the author of sin, I'm blaming a SYSTEM for teaching things that lead to that erroneous conclusion. I understand that Calvinists would never say God is the author of sin, but in the same breath some would say he decrees the sinful desires of men (i.e. 'He decrees...

And all people of all nationalities without distinction is a far cry from "a select few from each nationality," as some want it to read.

No, I don't hold to that 'term'...though I suppose one could refer to any gracious act of God which enables men to respond to him as "prevenient" if they wanted to. I just prefer to stick with the biblical terms. The gospel is the power of God...'the very words that Jesus spoke are spirit and...

No?????????

This is one point I actually agree with and should be noted: I agree with this point, which is why Paul said, "God bound all men over to disobedience so he might show mercy to all men," rather than "God bound all men over to disobedience in order to condemn all except preselected few." You...

Biblicist, I will reply to the parts that actually address my rebuttals. I will ignore the parts that (1) simply repeat your perspective or (2) beg the question or (3) belittle the person rather than address the subject.... All done...

I concur..........

Allow me to translate the Luken language for those following along. He thinks creating someone who is able to make choices independently from God's determination of those choices is equal to making another God. Apparently, God can be the only RESPONSE-ABLE one in our universe...or at least in...

I'd say that some even the person is not even aware of... sometimes we are not very in touch with our feelings, thoughts, habits, motives, etc and don't even know all that is effecting our choices. Therapy helps. :)

1. As I've quoted before, Calvinists are seriously divided among themselves and always have been. There is Supralapsarianism vs. Sublapsarianism vs. Infralapsarianism. 'The Supralapsarians hold that God decreed the fall of Adam; the Sublapsarians, that he permitted it' (McClintock & Strong)...

lol ...and that is the point! The very existence of forums like this only go to validate contra-causal free will.