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Reiterating, I borrow from both classic calvinism and classic arminianism because I believe both had the right intents towards glorifying God but slipped into error in human reasoning. I'd always attempt pruning away the errors to see unity over common grounds of truth. That said, why do you...

I bring up those ideas in Orthodoxy only because I see us similarly taking doctrinal positions more focused on specific parts than the whole of God Himself. We whitewash contradictions, defending the indefensible, and end in utter unreason - only because there is a reason to hold on to as a...

G.K.Chesterton's Orthodoxy helps put into language some common observations in ourselves. He talks about the pessimist and the optimist - where the former is more like a house hunter who rejects a house on a perceived flaw while the latter is one who overlooks the flaw altogether. He argues that...

Oh Absolutely. But that isn't the question - can God desire against something He's already earlier willed to be so? For instance, God has willed for all mankind to be judged before the resurrection - can He then desire not to judge man after willing it so? God has willed to save all the elect...

Amusing you would simply repeat your original question right after I've answered in detail. What part of my reply was vague or ambiguous that warranted you to double check? And why skip answering my questions that were meant to actually keep the discussion on topic instead of meandering away...

I agree with his reasoning, not with his conclusions. Where he reasons - "Theoretically there are four possible kinds of consistent single predestination....(3) particular predestination to election with the option of salvation by self-initiative to those not elect (a qualified Arminianism)...

I am your enemy? Are you of the belief that one who doesn't believe in Calvinism isn't a believer in Christ? Is Wesley not a believer in Christ? If you believe so, I will gently nudge you away from such grave errors. If that's truth, why didn't Whitfield or Bunyan hold the same? Don't you agree...

Ouch. I guess double predestination allows you to have such remarkable insights into God's present real-time workings, walking away dusting your sandals instead of desiring to persuade a brother of what you've perceived to be his errors. Anyway, you're not obligated to continue any discussions...

Heb 6:4-6, Heb 10:26-39, 2Pet 2:20-22, 1Sam 10:6-10

You don't agree with me because..of what you believe and I don't? Isn't that obvious - why assert the same premise that we're essentially debating over? I don't believe in double predestination for the reasons I've stated above - how do you reconcile them? You don't believe in single...

I am contesting the premises - 1. God did not sovereignly choose some men for salvation - God sovereignly chose some men for promised salvation. Rom 9:8 - the elect are children of the Promise to be blessed in salvation and life. We know God's promises are immutable and so we paraphrase it as...

How do you read Matt 23:37 then? The word specifically used to describe God there is how often He Desired/willed1 to gather them under His wings. And how do you read Eze 33:11? Again, the same word used to express Desire (Hos 6:6).

Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing(2), remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will(1), but thine, be done. Quickly to clarify semantics, at least the kjv and esv translate 2 different words as the same word 'will' in English. For the purposes of our conversation, I would...

We've already discussed most of the points you've raised here - I shall anyway go through all of them, either briefly replying or providing a link to where it's been discussed. And to progress toward conclusions, let's break it up into individual points/posts just so it's simpler for all of us...

This is a debate forum and there are no facts simply by repeated assertion until evidenced from scriptural consistency. Again, I do not wish to engage in a hostile or defensive environment - we're each simply sharing how we arrive at our respective beliefs. We provide our reasons and scriptural...

I'm guessing you're looking for scriptural references that reveal God's desire for the non-elect to repent and live? There are many if Calvinism didn't redefine plain words as in John 3:16, but pivotal verses would be Matt 23:37 and Eze 33:11.

Open theism holds that God cannot foreknow what man will self-determine until it actually occurs, right? How do you read open theism into what I'd written when I'm maintaining God's foreknowledge throughout? The question is if God foreknows through foreordination or not..

Single predestination does not deny this. The point of difference is in whether God predestines / foreordains the condemnation of the non-elect at that same point in His mind or if He sovereignly decrees for them to self-determine their own destiny through faith or unbelief. Essentially, does...

You misunderstood. I'm saying it's not just this that is in God's Word but also all that followed that's found in God's word. And since it's all found directly in God's word, it's not our own interpretation. Again, my point was that the written word of God is not silent on what's being...

We've been discussing a lot and in order to avoid a spaghetti discussion, let's recap and agree on what we're exactly arguing for now and what we've already covered... The logical merits of single predestination was argued over first which led to a fork over whether God had provided a valid...