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Huh, Rippon, read back a few posts. We discussed the entire context and I'm quite certain no objective reader is going to presume that God's patience with the believers in this passage equals the assertion that God is ONLY patient with a preselected few who he will irresistibly save. You guys...

And how do you even "suppress a truth" that you never could actually understand because it wasn't spiritually discerned for you? The TRUTH shall set you free! Unless of course you are just TOO enslaved and the 'truth' is just too weak to free you.

Two fathers. Father 1: His son lies to him so he spanks him and makes him stay in his room for the rest of the day. Someone asks the father, "Why is the son confined to his room?" The father replies, "Because he lied to me and that is his punishment." "But who decided that punishment," they...

Oh, so God did grant them the ability to respond? No, he didn't. And who was it that decided the result of Adam's sin would be total inability? Mother Nature? Us? Satan? Is that the one determination God didn't make in your system? And WHO if not God designed that "NATURE." You can't...

But you are not addressing the real question. What do those THINGS, those 'instrumental means' actually accomplish that is not accomplished by the supernatural effectual work of regeneration? The answer you are looking for is: NOTHING Ok, sure. Next time you preach or teach be sure to...

Oh, and you continue to chide me about my definition of man's fallen nature as if I haven't answered that a dozen times already in one way or another. I believe exactly as you do with one exception. I believe the power of God's Word, His appeal to be reconciled, His divinely inspired truth, is...

Ignoring the fact that this conclusion has yet to be established biblically (I know you believe it has, but I don't)...let's just accept it for the sake of argument. Who designed it to be this way? You keep avoiding this by insisting that man is responsible for being spiritually dead, but...

But what do they accomplish that is not already accomplished by the irresistible work of regeneration, by which man's will is supernaturally made to be willing? For example, the means of 'envy' used to provoke the will of Jews so that they may be saved (Rm 11:14)...what exactly does envy...

But its not just another book for real. It's God's inspired word given to bring understanding to otherwise mysterious truths of God. His WORD is the means by which He chooses to bring discernment, so there is no good reason to suggest that the Word of God is an insufficient work of God to...

The trouble comes when we presume God exists on a linear timeline by applying linear cause/effect constraints to his workings. Foresight is different from foreknowledge. IMO, God's knowledge is based on something much fuller, greater, more complete than the concept of looking through the...

No. He doesn't even owe it to those who believe and repent.

How can you conclude that someone being confronted by the Holy Spirit wrought, inspired truth of God's Holy Word is "apart from the Holy Spirit?" We all agree that no one can understand or be believe divine mysteries a part from a work of the Holy Spirit, but you all seem to assume that His...

I meant to say that Calvinists deny the sufficiency of the Word apart from an additional work of Regeneration. The Word is a powerful work of the Holy Spirit and Regeneration is a powerful work of the Holy Spirit. You believe BOTH powerful works of the Holy Spirit are necessary to enable...

I agree, and if we want to unpack any particular passage, that is fine. But for the sake of brevity in a discourse that is already becoming novel-like I feel it is okay to appeal to the 'giants' at times. :) I didn't mean strange as in 'new,' but as in 'it doesn't make common sense,' and thus...

I was talking about the fallen man's ability to respond to God's revelation, not un-fallen Adam's ability to respond. All this reply does is confirm my point that your view had "un-responsible" people being treated as if they are responsible. Not once in the account of the Fall does...

Very good info. Thanks Quantum! Follow up with this analogy, just imagine that after your relative committed this sin, God punished you by imputing his fallen nature on you making you a murder yourself and your nature so corrupt that even when He, the God of Universe, made an appeal for you...

And as ministers of reconciliation to lost men what would be their task? God would make His appeal THROUGH them: Be reconciled to God. You know, I was thinking about this the other day and for the determinist, an appeal from God NEVER makes much sense whether its an appeal toward the lost to...

Agreed. But there are plenty of those provided from much smarter commentators than I am and I imagine you are well educated enough to have read many of them...or at least have the capacity to look them up if you were unfamiliar with my perspective. It seems strange to me to suggest that a...

The Statement of Faith you agreed to when you signed on as a "Baptist" for this forum: III. Man Man is the special creation of God, made in His own image. He created them male and female as the crowning work of His creation. The gift of gender is thus part of the goodness of God's...

I believe there is sufficient evidence given in the scripture to suggest that all mankind fell when Adam fell. We are all in need of reconciliation and the only way for us to be reconciled is through Christ's work of atonement. I imagine you all know which verses are used to support this...