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WITBOTL, The army also refers to those who have recently joined as 'recruits,' but we all know that those who actually join aren't the only ones that the Army attempted to recruit. Likewise, I've heard people refer to those called to ministry as the 'called' in a similar fashion. To refer to...

I think a combination of 1 and 2 is fine. This tends to only become a conflict when the leader draws a hard line in the sand by attacking the opposing perspective as heretical or a 'false gospel.' I see no practical or logical reason for Calvinists to draw such lines for even by their own...

Well, I hope you know that the corporate view doesn't negate the individual, we just approach the individual from the corporate perspective instead of the other way around. Make sense? ;) IOW, there are individuals on that plane and those individuals are predestined to adoption...

Actually, I referred to the 'writers' of the BF&M, not to the document itself, as it was probably the goal of the committee to remain somewhat neutral on such controversial matters so as to avoid causing division in the SBC. If you read Hershel Hobbs book titled the BF&M where he expounds...

This is a linchpin issue in this debate. It should be apparent to any objective observer (one not already blindly devoted to a theological construct) that only one appeal or call is issued in scripture. The gospel appeal for all enemies to be reconciled is talked about dozens of times and...

Yes. Indeed, I believe they were both wrong and so did the writers of the Baptist Faith and Message. The majority of Southern Baptists today believe in a moderate or modified version of the two camps. I believe along with the scholars who penned the BF&M that election should be understood...

Aaron, most 'lurkers' already know the basic claims of your 5 points, which is really all you have just summarized above. But the purpose of this forum is to debate the various theological points of view. Debating involves forming arguments, providing support for those claims and responding to...

Masterful post, Allan! :thumbs:

TCassidy, In post #92 you defined the gospel as the 5 points of Calvinism, suggesting (along with Aaron) that a non-Calvinistic interpretation of the gospel is not really the gospel. Aaron, in particular, has been more blunt on this accusation than you were, but nevertheless, Allan's response...

Aaron, I'm the only one of us who IS dealing with the actual topic. You think referring to the actual words of Jesus as being spirit and life is akin to 'hocus pocus' and 'drinking a preachers urine.' Yet, you have not once provided an alternative interpretation for the many texts I've...

That goes both ways... I also notice that the 'losing' party tends to ignore posts all together. (ref to posts #140 and 141)

You quoted a verse which says, "I speak with the tongues of men and angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass," which clearly means that one's motive when speaking matters, which has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. Right, because Israel (except a remnant) were...

Democrats: 1. Attempted to remove all mentions of God from their platform 2. Side with Atheists and Agnostics in their attempts to secularize all aspects of public life 3. Support the killing of innocent life and even the obscene practice of partial birth abortion 4. Believe it...

But you're wrong and I'm convinced of it.... I guess the OP is right. :smilewinkgrin:

MorseOp, I'd add that it is more frustrating when you feel that your opponent doesn't really understand your perspective. Sometimes we wrongly (or rightly) presume that the only reason that a well meaning brother in Christ doesn't accept my view as truth is because they don't really understand...

Good post 12strings! Very well stated! :thumbs:

I have a few more passages to add as support, though I don't expect you to actually address them, as that is your MO: Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his...

So, you agree that the words spoken in love have power? So, if "Harry Potter" has love, then his "incantations" work? What is your point? How does this address our point of contention. Yet, the verse you quoted speaks of the motive of love from the messenger...it says nothing of the ears of...

And Aaron, you are proving my point that you refuse to engage in an actual debate. I presented my case for why the very 'utterances' (words) of the gospel TRUTH, inspired by God Himself, are powerful and effective. I quote numerous passages which say EXACTLY what I believe about the power of...

Well, what they have done is categorized humility and faith as a meritorious work of the law, and thus have concluded that if anyone has the capacity to humbly believe, then they would be earning or meriting their own salvation. We know that is not the case, but that is what they have wrongly...