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How is that question begging? I didn't presume true a point up for debate. I simply argued that a doctrine being more or less palatable tells us nothing about the truth of that doctrine. And I showed that wasn't even the point of the OP...a point, btw, that you have yet to address.

Your short rebuttal is useless, inflammatory, unnecessary, and worthy of rebuke.

If your reject the doctrine of Irresistible calling (which it appears from what you've said above that you do) then we have no real disagreement. I believe the Holy Spirit wrought Gospel appeal does draw (drag) all who hear it, but not irresistibly so. A person can be drawn but rebel and grow...

I'm not sure how this argument helps Calvinists. Don't you all believe that regenerated men come to Christ willingly? So, why all the fuss about trying to prove God drags them? If you are attempting to prove the irresistibility of God's regenerative work to save believers, we will gladly...

Just because our view is more 'palatable' to any mind (regenerated or not), doesn't make it less likely to be true. That dodges the point. The point is that many Calvinists attempt to claim that OUR view holds mankind to be better than than are (a 'higher view of man'), when in fact this...

We are in agreement on this very valid and serious point of contention! :thumbsup: As to the rest of your post...well...not so much.

Just as I made a judgement based upon what I believe is the mythical situation of Joe (the lost person in the Calvinistic system). Suppositional arguments are ones in which the opponent supposes the other view is right so as to compare and contrast with their own view. (i.e. if your view is...

Some Calvinists, like Luke, would disagree with you as witnessed on the "Good Debate" thread. As he argues, and I agree, the Calvinist doctrine apart from the belief in double predestination is illogical, at best. It makes no sense to speak of God's active choice to save a particular number of...

Aaron, you just switched the analogy to talk about the non-elect (Joe) and the elect (Jack) of the Calvinistic system, where as I was addressing a lost person in each of our systems. I can understand why none of you want to address the actual OP. It is clear that in your system the lost...

1. Don't pretend to be so innocent with your motives after your first post in this thread... 2. Am I picking a fight or wanting to debate a particular topic without getting derailed? 3. You can't dismiss 'human belief's' in ascertaining God's wishes. One may believe he wishes something...

Yes, and your unwillingness to reveal what you believe on this matter speaks for itself.

Agreed. Question beg much?

So, you don't believe as some Calvinists that people are either elected unto salvation or chosen to be left in their hopeless totally depraved condition from birth?

Below are two scenarios of two lost men. Jack is a lost man in the non-Calvinistic system, while Joe is a lost man in the Calvinistic system. Which of these men is really worse? Which is clearly more deserving of Hell? Jack: Is a sinful and depraved man who is born an enemy of God and in...

Yesh, we've been over this a few dozen times. Its not either/or, it is both/and. Pharaoh hardened his own heart, in that he is the one who decided to keep Israel as free slave labor. But, God at times hides the truth of his revelation from Pharaoh (judicially hardens him) to keep him from...

That seems to be a fairly accurate analogy. I've only encountered "Calvinist B" in all my debating and reading, and this is the first I've encountered "Calvinist A." So, it is somewhat confusing but still interesting. At least Luke is willing to try and address the issue of God's active...

Respectfully, no, you didn't. I asked for any quote which specifically supports your view that, "the Gospel would regenerate EVERYBODY if God did not take active means to stop it." I've yet to read Hodge or anyone who has made that specific claim. Yes, they support gospel regeneration and...

If I were to ask for just one thing it would be to quote the paragraph of any notable Reformed/Calvinistic scholar who specifically argues, "the Gospel would regenerate EVERYBODY if God did not take active means to stop it." I know you linked to several articles earlier, but as I pointed out...

If you consider faith as being 'good' (which you have) and you consider 'good' being meritorious (deserving or earning divine favor--which you have), then you are the ONLY one of us who believes faith is a work. Which comes to pass when someone is informed or has experienced that which is to be...

It is a fruit of the powerful Holy Spirit wrought Gospel, but not effectually applied. People aren't born with faith in Christ. That is just an absurdity used to misrepresent and distract from the our actual point of contention. One, Aaron has always dismissed as being irrelevant. Here is...