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The question is not our greatest virtue. That is what those verses address. However, I would say that to love God w/ all your fill in the blank is another way of saying glorify God.

I'm not saying you're wrong. You make some compelling points. I just want to throw something at you and hear your opinion. What is the purpose of Romans? Why did Paul write it? What is the occasion that he is facing? Is it simply to gain support from the church at Rome to get to Spain...

No... I think the entire point of redemption is God's glory. Again... the gospel story from 1 Cor. 15:1-4 goes forward towards God's kingdom. And the point of all of that is v. 29, "That God may be all in all." God saves for his glory. While God is for us, he is more for himself. And that's...

For a general division of Romans, yes I'd agree. But Romans is occasional. What is the issue he is addressing. I'm not sure what discourse marker you are seeing in 5:1. "Therefore"? That connects ch. 5 w/ the previous context. In other words, there is not a marker that says, "Alright, now...

The vitriol goes both way in my experience. Maybe that is enough reason for us all to leave the board for a while and come back later when we can handle it?

Glad we have so much trust and faith amongst the brethren here. Sheesh.

First, I don't think I have called your views that... ever. Second, I am actually not sure that you have addressed this. I brought it up in the other thread, but you didn't address it. So here is your chance. I like to think I can handle reasoned arguments. Put me to the test as I challenge...

Not sure... can you summarize in a few sentences the relationships between 1-8 and 9-11?

Notice I used the Bible in my assertions. You used Jn 3:16 to say a bunch of nothing. Thanks for the contribution. As for my attempts, they are to communicate that we need a bigger view of God than this pathetic concept that God is for us more than for himself. A man-centered God, really...

I think I can discredit that w/ this concept... to what end is God a necessary being? Only a creation makes him necessary. So to what end is he a necessary being, and to what end does he create? Apply that question "to what end" and ultimately you will get to the root: God's glorification.

Well said... and not just b/c we are in agreement ;)

Then what is the point of revelation??? If we see a common pattern, a common theme, then we don't have to throw around ontological concepts as if that holds up to a moral/ethical issue. I find it interesting that you can evaluate God ontologically, but somehow you can't evaluate him morally...

This argument is not all that helpful, because the same accusation can be leveled against you. "You insist on describing him as a non-Calvinist*. That's a very tight box, and utterly fails to consider his full sovereignty." *[insert whatever label you prefer; so long as you don't use the...

Disappointed a discussion has not ensued. JonC, some argue that Paul's thoughts throughout 1-11 are the faithfulness/righteousness of God. Not that you are incorrect about 1-8, but I think it is too narrow. If Romans is occasional, then what purpose or to what end is he presenting the...

NKJV is better than the KJV... I'm tryin' to pick a fight ;)

That sounds like a tautology. If God is righteous, then he exhibits virtues. What is his highest?

This is in response to another thread that started to get derailed. I asserted that God is for God before he is for anyone or anything else. He loves his glory more than you or me. Thus his greatest virtue is his self-glorification. I'm sure we'll get into the ethics behind that...

I am still a compatablist. But I also have no problem saying that God has ordained everything... EVERYTHING.

You didn't see the part I put into quotations marks? "For his name's sake." That phrase refers to all the phrases before it. Why is YHWH our shepherd? Why shall I not want? Why does he lay me down in green pastures? Why... for his name's sake. Let's ask it this way: why are we created...

LOL... you made me double check what I wrote to be sure I wasn't a jerk. It is my inclination.