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Even Calvinists affirm this. People are NOT born saved bro...not even in the Calvinistic worldview. But nice try. :)

Yeah, I do know where it is heading. Its heading toward arrogant know-it-alls making speculations as if they are known facts like all those different Calvinistic camps do. Expert political pundants can't even guess what is going to happen in our own nations election, do you really think we...

The concept that Christ's work paid just so much for just so many is not even supported by classical Reformed teaching... Asked and answer on the first page. See post #6.

Why don't you ask the Infralapsarian Calvinists, Sublapsarian Calvinists and Postlapsarian Calvinists to tell you what they think the infinite TIMELESS creator determined PRIOR to determining what he determined. But be sure they explain to you how it is that an omniscient being who knew his...

What you are asking is, "What determines their choice?" Right? Don't you realize that you are begging the question by assuming that a deterministic response is necessary? This is a fallacy. We believe in FREE will, not a deterministic will, so if we answered your question by telling you what...

Yes. Does that prove God likewise predetermined Jeff Dahmer to do his crimes? NO. Plus, I don't believe God predetermined the crucifixion in the way you probably do (i.e. casually predetermining each individual nature so they could not have done otherwise etc). But instead, by more...

Yes, it was God's will to sacrifice 'HIMSELF' in order to provide redemption for the entire human race. Equating His work to arrange the circumstances (i.e. hardening Israel etc) to effectually bring about his gracious redemptive plan with your speculations that he causally determines every...

Even if this is true its probably better to handle it in a PM...

You must not have done it right. ;)

These were questions that help me realize the errors of my ways. ;) BTW, many Cals here claim to have been non-Cals prior to becoming Cals, so this charge COULD be leveled against any argument/question they raise too. Is that what you are suggesting needs to happen on a forum meant to debate...

Both of which fall short of God's Holy nature, proving that he wouldn't even tempt men to do it...much less causally determine it to happen. Where does my point of view define foreknowing but not preventing evil less than just? It doesn't. My point of view (God foreknows somethings and...

I acknowledge the difficulty of God not preventing heinous crimes, but to pretend that difficulty is somehow equal to the difficulty of a deterministic system that has God originating and predetermining the intent of the criminal and the act itself is absurd. I know, I know, you bath that...

Existing prior to its conception based on foreknowledge is one thing, but most (if not all) Calvinists equate such foreknowledge with predetermination. I simply appeal to mystery of such infinite matters rather than draw conclusions that impugn the holiness of God by suggesting he must...

Then you tell me what he meant. He is arguing that actions are never evil and he lists all those actions in order to show how they can all be done and NOT be evil. I listed an extreme version of one he brought up to reveal his error. There are some things that are just plain evil, period. Do...

Who, if not God, made the determination that all men would be born with a totally depraved nature due to the fall? Is someone else in control of that? Is that the one thing God isn't sovereign over in Calvinism? :confused: You know, by calling something 'natural' in a system where God is in...

Monergism claims it is all God because he is the one who irresistibly draws one to faith and repentance and thus leaves nothing for which to credit to man. So, my question is about the non-elect. Do Calvinists believe the reprobates response is also monergistic given that the nature they...

I have to close this thread due to it's length, but feel free to start a new one. Let me just restate for clarity. I don't believe we are saved by any work of our own, for even our greatest efforts are as filthy rags. But God, being great in love and rich in mercy takes those filthy rags and...

I actually said 'never stepping'... If one 'never obeys' we can be sure their faith was dead... "You will know them by their fruit." That is not to say that even true believers don't have times in life where they are living in rebellion or disobedience though...if that is the way you took it...

:laugh: Yeah, there is such a high standard to meet around here. Sorry about that. :laugh: Surely you must have found some major discrepancies or something to provoke this kind of response? No? These are direct quotes from their actual work, but if you have evidence to show otherwise...