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Some do seem to interpret Ephesians where it says that God 'works all thing according to the pleasure of his will' in a manner that comes across this way. However, others are better at separating and defining God's sovereign decree and his pleasure. Either way, in a system where God's...

You is referring to ALL of them...Israel. Aaron, look at the whole context brother. They are ALL guilty because they have ALL done the same thing. They say, "we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets" Jesus says, "you testify against yourselves...I am...

Again, you ignored the fact that I acknowledged that you give scripture the label of authority, but that is its ONLY uniqueness because in your system he brings everything to pass. Plus, in regard to this verse, even some 'reformed' scholars teach in agreement with non-Cals such as Adam...

Archangel, 1. I have extensively studied Compatiblism for close to two decades and was a proponent of it for much of that time. Compatibilism, by its very definition, IS a philosophical view, whether you want to call it that or not. Now, you may have a different method of defining and...

Aaron, In your system God is in as much control over the authoring of Pilgrim's progress as He is the book of Romans because you believe in a deterministic world where God has ultimately brought all things to pass according to his foreordained or predetermined plan. Whether he does that...

Look at the context Aaron. 29 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the...

AA, where do you think 'Compatibilism' got its name? It is from the idea that they believe Determinism is "compatible" with human freedom. By denying the determinism of your system you have nothing with which to be compatible. Hard determinists, which I know you are not, are not...

OldReg, Ben covered this issue in the other thread and that hasn't been sufficiently rebutted so as to give me cause to readdress it here, so I'll defer you to that post... Post 111

"You" refers to the Israelites as a whole, not individuals. You know, just like when he says in the next verse: "37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her...

The person conceived AND the means by which each was conceived. Jesus, God's only begotten, conceived by supernatural means, just like scripture, God's inspired words, conceived by supernatural means. I was conceived by mom and dad just like everyone else. It's the uniqueness of the...

And what of apples? Do we give men or God credit for those? Your red herring is cute, but only avoids the issue. If God sovereignly 'ordains whatsoever comes to pass' then he sovereignly ordained the Pilgrims Progress and the book of Romans to come to pass. You have yet to demonstrate how...

Archangel, I'll wade past the demeaning and snide comments to address the otherwise well thought out response. I don't know why these discussions must always be brought into the mud, but anyway... And I quoted from the last part of this saying, "God ordained whatsoever comes to pass," yet you...

I'm pointing you to the root meaning of the origin of this word. We understand one who is able to respond is 'response-able,' thus when you remove the ability for one to respond you remove their responsibility or culpability. It is not that difficult. You accusation of non-sequitur is based...

Ben, well stated. :thumbsup: In addition I wanted to comment on these points: 'Natural consequences' that were determined by God...thus you have yet to avoid the accusation regarding God's determination of man's nature. Do you mean "free" as in 'libertarian' freedom, the man is able to...

Icon, this serves no purpose here. I could simply rebuttal by saying the same thing about your views. We both obviously believe our view is the biblical one. To state such over and over as a defense is really not debating. It is a circular and very immature fallacy of debate. It's like when...

Ok, then answer the question. Where did the truth you write come from? What about John Bunyan's pilgrims progress? It was clearly a unique and creative allegory which most Calvinists would agree expresses truth, right? So, where did that come from? Did John originate that idea himself or...

Correction, I view YOUR interpretation of God as being 'less than desirable,' as DO many believers (even Calvinists when first coming to this doctrine). That is the point I'm attempting to address in the OP. The rest of your post is just one big fallacy called Question Begging...

At least AA earlier attempted a response thus showing some willingness to engage the discussion rather than merely inflame. No one here is attempting to demean the bible, in fact my goal is quite the opposite. I believe God's unique, active and sovereign work to bring about scripture IS PROOF...

Just as Calvinists don't believe that 'total depraved' means that men are as bad as they could be, likewise Arminians don't believe that "free" means that men are as "free" as they could be. But I think you already knew that. We are talking about men's 'response-ability' (ability to...

:thumbsup: They do TRY to give an answer. They typically quote Romans 9, which was what I was attempting to address in starting this thread. That has been virtually ignored as ad hominem has become the norm...that or simply dismissing the clear problem all together as if it never existed.