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Alright, humour me for a moment then - let's suppose that cutting welfare payments will involve people falling into hardship. Let's consider the family referred to in my OP - what would you say to them?

In my view, the only thing that is going to address the root cause is the love and knowledge of the Lord, not programs or legislation. PLus maybe raising awareness/ education about abortion and sex ed (which the Republicans also wish to cut). Without the Holy Spirit, people - young and not so...

Are you saying the link to the House vote is inaccurate, then? In an ideal world, I would agree with you on the whole personal responsibility point. But we don't live in such a world, but a fallen one. I am interested in policies which will see the number of abortions cut, and I don't see that...

Like I said, you haven't thought this through, have you? I have started a new thread specifically on the abortion issue as I don't want to derail this one further.

First, some interests to declare: 1. I am not a US citizen. I have no vote next month. Nevertheless, the decision you guys make has a profound impact on the rest of the world, including the little island off the north-west coast of Europe I call home; thus, in my view, I am allowed at least to...

Nope, didn't say that. Just questioning the assumption behind the assertion.

Yeah, cos good women never get raped, right>

Then you're indirectly in favour of more abortions. I really don't think you've thought this one through...

I'd take the Republican opponents of abortion much more seriously if they didn't act like the offer of pro-life expired at birth... A plague on both their houses...

If Obama stuffs up the remaining debates in the way he did the first, Romney is in with a chance next month...

The press over here are definitely treating it as a 'win' for Romney.

I'm aware that the ATF scarcely acted honourably in the 'back story' to the siege but that's no justification for trying to kill police. If I'm missing something further that might point towards some kind of self-defence legal defence, then I'm open to enlightenment.

Of which 'state controlled media' do you speak? And what further info do I need? People who try to kill policemen are scumbags as far as I'm concerned. (This is a sore point over here ATM - a drug-gang member killed two policewomen in Manchester last week in a gun and grenade attack.)

If you're a law-abiding citizen, when the police come to arrest you, you surrender to their custody and let the criminal justice system decide your guilt or innocence. Weaver and Co didn't, which made them criminals, armed criminals at that, which made them even more dangerous and more essential...

Yes, I had Waco principally in mind. And I guess in my mind I do tend to conflate the Weavers with the threat to democracy posed by the right wing militias, although I accept the two are not on all fours, although there are militia elements in the behaviour of the Weavers and their associates...

One would expect at least private prosecutions or successful judicial reviews of the actions if they were genuinely illegal. The basic point is that no democratically-elected government can endure for long if it tolerates the existence of hostile armed gangs (particularly those of a cultish...

...and don't get me started on the anti-semitic 'blood libel' or the Crusades...

Like I said earlier, the Ruby Ridge and Waco references would have some resonance if they had been stormed by armed members of the ACLU, NAACP or union members. But they weren't - they were carried out by government employees acting quite legally (whatever you might think). So, again, not even...

Sound analysis. But even that isn't quite the same: an additional factor that was present in Germany in December 1932 and definitely not present in the US in 1968 was that the Reichswehr stated that it couldn't both protect Germany's borders and control the fighting SA and Rotfronkampferbund -...

A more nuanced view